Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin
The British Mosquito once carried Niels Bohr in its bomb bay (thedrive.com)
217 points by pepys on Oct 14, 2023 | hide | past | favorite | 81 comments


> The British Mosquito once carried Niels Bohr in its bomb bay

Fantastic imagery occuring in my mind while reading that title as someone unfamiliar with the lingo. Almost psychedelic.

"Niels Bohr, father of atom, birthed from anus of mosquito, 2001 Starchild-like, bomb-bay-baby, 3-piece suit full formed within placenta, from the mother insect, a mission stalk-like to replenish the darkened Britain."


Append "high resolution anamorphic movie still, kodachrome, trending on artstation" and you have a prompt to throw into stable diffusion/midjourney


Dall-E 2: “It looks like this request may not follow our content policy.” :(


I guess we need to rework our meaning into Newspeak and replace some wrongthink words (such as, I imagine, "anus", and maybe "placenta") with something a little more Orwellian, and less (as a middle schooler might say) "gross".

Anyone have a MJ account? I don't. Please do this! Maybe we need to prefix with "glorious natural water birth" to pass the ideological purity filters? hahaha :)


On it! But I'm running SD on a rather anemic cpu-only system so it'll be a while

Edit: while SD burns up my CPU, here's an attempt with Dall-E 3, which apparently doesn't balk at displaying real humans or anal mosquito births...

http://files.rombouts.email/bohrwtf.png

Interestingly Dall-E 3 increases variation (and applies mild censorship) by rewriting the prompt. In this case, into the following, utterly deranged word salad:

A giant mosquito's abdomen is torn open, revealing a luminous space within. From this space, Niels Bohr, depicted in a surreal, 2001 Starchild-like form and wearing a 3-piece suit, is emerging. The process looks gentle yet momentous, with rays of light and energy radiating outward. The backdrop is a darkened, impressionistic portrayal of Britain.


http://files.rombouts.email/bohrno.png

Let's say that SD doesn't really know where to begin with the original prompt, lol. Some fucking eldritch shit right there.


Looks like a navigator from Spacing Guild, Lynch version.


That background of Britain is straight out of some Pink Floyd's cover art. I can see the iconic Battersea Power Station fit perfectly in there.


SDXL isn't doing much better https://imgur.com/a/eRMw1BW :(

Edit: forgot the set the width and height to be 1024


Oh, I thought the bohrwtf posted above was really good, much better! :)

Tho you got some interesting ones too...seem less related to the prompts but pretty cool! :)

I'm a fan of blue face, baby and strange farm.


That's cool man! That is really cool! 8D


I got my OpenAI banned from using Dall-E service for writing a prompt like this (Don't remember exact prompt)

"generate artistic visualization for a supersymmetry heavy particle moving in a magnetic field that will decay into particle with a kink track geometry for the heaviest decay daughter"


How dare you. Well you can always try civitai. They have the lewdest boson LoRAs on the planet.


I'm so sick of this nanny bullshit. It makes sense to hedge and remind people you're an incompetent bot when they're asking for medical advice, but the cat's been out of the bag on deepfakes" tech for a decade now. Video "evidence" has always had to come with a human who testifies it's true and taken in the appropriate context, or else it's not valid


use open source stable diffusion - your imagination is the only limit there.


Haha, well, my imagination and my lack of prompting/fine-tuning skill

I've been having a blast with it though


This is exactly where my mind went, thanks to Everything In News Being Title Case Even When It's Not A Proper Noun.


Hahah! Lol great to know. :)


Nice. Sounds like Thomas Pynchon, Gravity's Rainbow :)


Thank you! :) I'll have to re-read that. Never made it through the first time in college.


Can I please see the generated image of this prompt?


[deleted]


Fantastico! How did you arrive at this disgusting pink horrorshow?


I think the interesting things about the mosquito are really that it was designed for manufacture in a sense and that it was very high performance too.

It was multipurpose AND high performance. I just think we might tend always to try to specialise and think that specialisation is the highest possible good.

To turn this to software, it was powerful for Android and iOS to use languages for which a lot of developer talent existed already and to pay attention to the ease of development more than ultimate performance. Nokia used an active-objects based version of C++ which used little memory and could get good performance out of the tiny ARM chips of the day but was very hard to program for. ARM chips suddenly got better and made most of this pain unnecessary but there was no way to suddenly make the C++ dev experience better without really starting from scratch.


It wasn't at all "designed to manufacture", it was an incredibly hard to build aircraft, requiring labour of extremely skilled carpenters as it was built of large number of wood elements requiring a very high precision of shapes to tightly fit together. Incredible pain in the ass to manufacture and no one else in the world could repeat a similar project. But the result was worth it.


Well, in the sense that it could be built by a much more available manufacturing skill and more available materials. I know that's not about ease for the workers but it made production much easier overall.


Nope; the manufacturing skill required was exceptionally rare, it's a lot harder than riveting aluminium sheets - any housewife could do it. Carpentry requires years and years of skill build-up, wood is unforgiving material. Mosquito production always struggled with shortage of people who could be taught how to do it.


You cannot rivet aluminium that you don't have presumably.


“Nokia used an active-objects based version of C++ which used little memory and could get good performance out of the tiny ARM chips of the day but was very hard to program for.”

I don’t think C++ was the problem there. The tooling was terrible, documentation even worse. It didn’t feel like they actually wanted developers.


C++ was a total disaster for one reason and everything came out of this:

It cannot handle running out of memory safely.

Handling an out of memory exception requires memory. 50% of the nastiness came out of the way Symbian tried to address this by redefining the new operator so that it could return null instead of raising an exception - the whole approach to memory management became horrendous because of this. 2 stage initialisation etc. It meant that all existing C++ code and containers were not portable.

20% of the nastiness came out of C++ being very immature at the time it was all started so OS classes for handling various kinds of unicode strings were not nice, there was no ABI stability. At Nokia the ARM compiler was used and it was very slow and required licenses which made it expensive to build in parallel.

20% of the nastiness came from choosing the windows DLL model over the linux .so one with export slots so that adding one method to a class would move the slots around and make a DLL incompatible if you didn't go through a complicated freexing process which seemed to go wrong from time to time. Adding one item to a datastructure also could crash existing programs which is par for the course in C++ but not Java and this was quite shitty.

These percentages are just my rough stab at it - maybe enough to give an idea.


I have written tons of perfectly fine C++ code for many platforms. I totally failed doing something for Nokia because tooling and documentation was terrible.


Not with the same constraints. How often does your program expect to run out of memory for example? On phones at that time it was expected to be common and it was absolutely essential that it be handled gracefully.

Were all your operating system calls asynchronous?


> A German general decorating with the Iron Cross some soldiers of the Expeditionary Force and two soldiers of the SS, in Denmark, April 1940

Norwegian writing on Norwegian houses in Norwegian town with Norwegian trees in background. So a slight Gell-Mann effect creeps in, although the general outline of Bohr's escape seems well enough aligned with the facts as known.



The Warzone is pretty lazy with captions.

They've mislabeled US fighter jets, and their authors have to know the difference.


ChatGPT subtitles the image “German and Italian officers exchange greetings in Norway.”


Ah yes, Mussolini's famous Norwegian campaign


My father worked on mosquitos during his national service with the UK RAF in the 1950s. He worked on the airframes, and the mosquito was notable as being one of the last military aircraft to have a wooden airframe - with some kind of canvas stretched over the frame. Apparently this made it very light and manoeuvrable.


To be clear it was more canvas over wooden monocoque than frame. It was made out of laminated wooden shapes made in molds, quite unlike early planes. The canvas was just for weatherproofing iirc.


Thanks - I didn't know that. I guess I was using the term "airframe" as the generic term for the aircraft body, not to imply that its was composed of a literal framework. Thanks for the clarification.

My father was sent to a conflict zone (Malaya, now Malaysia/Singapore) and seems to have spent a fair bit of his time there repairing damage caused by ground-based small arms. Probably an exciting time for a twenty year old.


Putting people in bomb bay was relatively common!

My grandfather did his national service with the RAF driving lorries across Palestine/Egypt/Iraq/Transjordan in 1945 to 1947 and flew over to Egypt in a bomb bay with all the other recruits.


My grandfather was conscripted into the German armed forces as an engineer during WW2 and ended up in the belly of bomber planes, manually detaching bombs while hoisted above the open hatch. He refused to set foot on another plane for the rest of his life.


Fun to read about this. My grandfather worked for Boeing and was the engineer in charge of manufacturing Mosquito tailplanes in Vancouver BC. He developed a system of using steam bladders to add pressure and heat to the glued pieces while it was curing which cut down their manufacturing time.

I've got some Mossie blueprints in my files, I really should get them framed one of these days. They're works of art!


For anyone as confused by this title as I was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito


My fun Mosquito fact that I like to share: there was a variant adapted with a 57mm artillery piece, the “QF six pounder”:

https://www.combatreform.org/cannonfighter.htm

(Good photos, odd article.)

It carried 24 rounds and the pilot said it felt like the aircraft slowed down every time they fired a round. (Which I can’t believe is true but it’s a worthy bon not from my late grandfather who was an engineer in the war.)


I'm fairly certain the de Havilland Aircraft Museum, located on the northern outskirts of London, used to have one of those cannons. It wasn't mounted, but was on display with the loading mechanism and magazine.

I've checked their website[1] but can't seen any mention of it. The museum looks a bit more neat & tidy than I remember it looking, so perhaps they've reduced what's on display.

[1] https://www.dehavillandmuseum.co.uk/


Yea assuming muzzle velocity 1000m/s and 3kg projectile weight and 6000kg aircraft weight, conservation of momentum would put the slowdown at 0.5m/s, hardly noticable at cruising speed I think. Though the jerk would most likely be noticable.


> The GAU-8 Avenger fires up to sixty one-pound bullets a second. It produces almost five tons of recoil force, which is crazy considering that it’s mounted in a type of plane (the A-10 “Warthog”) whose two engines produce only four tons of thrust each.

From: https://what-if.xkcd.com/21/


I'm not surprised at all that it slowed down. The A-10 slows down when firing as well, the gun produces more thrust than the engine.


Odd is putting it lightly, it's like the author has never heard of air defense systems


Wikipedia has a short, focused section on the 57mm-cannon Mosquito variant, starting 3 paragraphs down here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito#Strike_(...

The canon was an anti-tank gun ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_QF_6_pounder ), the primary intended target was U-boats, and they added quite a bit of armor (to help with AA fire from uncooperative U-boats).

It doesn't sound like the cannon-armed Mosquito was (at the time) seen as successful. OTOH, I'd guess that the Allies having both good radar, and ~350MPH clouds of cannon-armed Mosquitos, would have imposed some pretty miserable operational limitations on the Germans.


Dif you not see the article arguing for two seat manned aircraft with cannons in the modern era? Claiming they could shoot down migs with flechette cannons?


Aircraft with such big guns were perhaps not a success, but aircraft with radar, bombs and depth charges became a deadly menace for u-boats.


Perfect job of a news site. If I had known Rowland White had a book out about mosquitos I would have read it already. I highly commend him to the HN crowd. His Vulcan 607 book is a masterwork. It explained the situation, the technology, and the human element too.


A Man Called Intrepid adds a detail that the article skips: The Mosquito carrying Bohr didn't stay high. The pilot, fearing that Bohr had an oxygen failure, descended, trading off greater risk of interception for greater survivability for the passenger.


For those who like to tie together different contexts, this incident is briefly mentioned in the recent film Oppenheimer. (Which, much to my surprise and delight, is pretty good history for a Hollywood movie.)


It certainly would have been interesting if Bohr had been found dead upon arrival because his oxygen mask wasn’t properly handled.


>When the plane arrived, he was given a flight helmet with built-in headphones but it was too small for his head. Bohr, therefore, did not hear the pilot’s instruction to begin using his oxygen mask and passed out. The Mosquito pilot was forced to drop the plane to a lower altitude to revive the oxygen-starved scientist.


There's always this:

https://neilsbahr.com/


That website is refusing me entry, could you share more about why it is relevant?


It's a self described nerd bar in Houston. It's relevant because of the pun name I guess.


Aaaah, nice!


What an exciting story, but I doubt it has anything to do with history. It's chockablock full of narrative candy, eg:

> Bohr and his wife, Margarethe, left their home at the Carlsberg brewery estate within hours of the tip-off from Harald. As they slipped out of the back of their house a Nazi snatch squad was already on its way. When the couple later crawled on all-fours from a beach hut to a waiting boat, the most famous man in Denmark had with him a single bag, a beer bottle full of heavy water retrieved from the lab, and a sketch purporting to be of the Nazi’s reactor design.

How could we possibly know the such things as 'Nazi snatch squads' even existed, nevermind that such a thing was on its way just as he decided to leave.. It's all very Biggles. These read to me like narrative plot twists to hold the reader's attention, rather than anything relating to what actually occurred.

Basically every paragraph is like this.

Still, it adds to the drama, brings story narratives vividly to life in the imagination.

The question for me, it's why is the history we are presented turned into these types of evidence-free stories? It's almost like its purpose is to propagandise the population into believing fantasies.


While the article did use very dramatic language, that the Nazi snatch squads in Denmark existed, were about to strike, and indeed did end up arresting many Danish Jews just a few days later over the Jewish New Year is very well documented history.

I find it surprising that you decided to write a skeptical comment here rather than just Googling it, as sources are plentiful. What are those 'fantasies' that you believe people are being made to believe?

For instance:

https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/rescue-of-the-danish-jews

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24427637

https://www.yadvashem.org/articles/academic/denmark-and-the-...

https://echoesandreflections.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/...

https://natmus.dk/fileadmin/user_upload/Editor/natmus/frihed...

https://sprawiedliwi.org.pl/en/node/17135


Let's accept your defence of the article:

> While the article did use very dramatic language, that the Nazi snatch squads in Denmark existed, were about to strike, and indeed did end up arresting many Danish Jews just a few days later over the Jewish New Year is very well documented history.

But contrast this with the article author says:

> As they slipped out of the back of their house a Nazi snatch squad was already on its way.

It's not the same thing.


What you said was:

> How could we possibly know the such things as 'Nazi snatch squads' even existed

Now you’re pretending you were only questioning the imminence of the arrest as described in the article, rather than the existence of the Nazi snatch squads themselves. That’s dishonest.


No - its not dishonest.

I don't know those squads existed. And neither do you. Neither of us were there. We only have secondary information on the whole affair.

What I do know is that those 2 bits of information do NOT match up. I do know that your defence + the statement in the article are NOT compatible. In your own terms, you have not found something that indicates what the author of the article expressed - that a death squad was on its way as they left their house. Maybe one would have come along a few days later. This is - at the least - a hyperbole.

If you were being honest you should have said, imo, that the article is NOT supported by the documented history. Ie that you agreed with my point that the story is exaggerated beyond anything historically plausible.


If you wanted to argue in favour of such extreme epistemological solipsism, you should have just said so rather than specifically questioning the existence of Nazi snatch squads in Denmark, or their well-documented arrests of many Jews just a few days after Bohr fled.

If all you had questioned was the article's hyperbole around imminence then I could accept your argument. That you're questioning whether the snatch squads existed at all is just bizarre.


You can call it 'extreme epistemological solipsism'. I call it not treating a unverified story as true. Especially when the hyperbole is rife throughout.

'Snatch squad' is just a term. 'Police arrest' is another term. 'Terrorist detention' is another. These terms provide all the context the casual reader needs to consider themselves informed.


> How could we possibly know the such things as 'Nazi snatch squads' even existed

Even setting aside the description "Danish woman working for the Gestapo saw an order for Bohr’s arrest and tipped off Bohr’s brother" from this account, we can look at other accounts, like the chapter "Escape" from his biography at https://archive.org/details/nielsbohrmanhis00moor/page/300/m...

"Many years later at the Nuremberg trials it was revealed that the Nazis had intended to arrest Bohr on the day martial law was declared. There was, however, a dispute about it, and the decision was made to put off his arrest and deportation to Germany until the Nazis began their roundup of the Jews. In the general excitement, they thought the arrest of Bohr would attract less attention and the furor would be less."

The contents of the chapter are mostly aligned with the linked-to account, though the chapter says the beer bottle of heavy water was not true:

"The prosaic truth was quite different. Heavy water was used in the institute's accelerator. When the supply had to be replenished, someone remembered that Bohr had once had a bottle the Norwegian manufacturer had presented to him. The institute men were unable to find it and sent an underground query to Rozental in Stockholm. Rozental sent back full instructions about where to find it and pointed out that the bottle was unlabeled." - https://archive.org/details/nielsbohrmanhis00moor/page/308/m...

> Basically every paragraph is like this.

That is not lost on anyone. From the second page of the book chapter I linked to, "Bohr and Margrethe, feeling like the principals in a spy melodrama, as indeed they were".


People have eyes. People see Nazi snatch squads. People write it down in their journal. People write news articles.

You seem to have zero clue about what happens in a society in wartime. This is how people sleepwalk into facism.


_Extreme_ bit of HN’s signature “nothing ever happens” tendency there.


>How could we possibly know the such things as 'Nazi snatch squads' even existed

Germans keep good records, and after the war all the archives were captured and read through and cross indexed. Every incident in Allied logs was compared with German logs to see what matched.


And are you prepared to state that you've verified this? Or is this something you imagine?


So, how have you verified that your statement about this being made up by the author is correct? Or is it something you imagine?


His comment history has the hallmark of a low trust obligate contrarian.


What does this mean?

I have low trust in authorities for good reason, I think. From there, it makes sense to look at whatever is being pushed in contrarian terms. So, no the state is not there to help, yes it is acting nefariously attempting to take greater power for itself, and yes it uses convenient stories pushed in education, media, etc to expound it's nonsense (lies, that if believed, harm the individual). I really do think this.


I'm saying that the story reads like the type of thing I enjoyed reading and writing about when I was around 12 years old. I think I recognise lots of narrative tricks in play, to get the excitement levels up. Which is entirely unlike reality.

You are of course free to defend this article as truth or whatever. However, if I see these sorts of tricks in play, I reserve the right to dismiss it as a manipulative narrative. I also reserve the right to express my opinion, esp if I am able to easily support my assertion using the provided text itself.

Do you realise that even the news is a manipulation? You are free to be curious about the 'facts' that are presented to you.


have you verified that the country of belgium exists? have you ever been there?


I am prepared to give my testimony and state that Belgium exists. I have been there, and they make delicious chips and chocolate. Perhaps the best chips I've had.

Your point about verification is valid. People should explain what verification they have undertaken. This article is full of hyperbole. I don't trust these sorts of imaginative excursions to deliver me the truth about WW2, any more than I expect rambo to tell me about Vietnam or whatever. Both are plainly way over exuberant. Quite entertaining I guess, but not much more than that.


If GP said they did, would you be prepared to accept that verification?

My intuition is that you wouldn’t.




Consider applying for YC's Winter 2026 batch! Applications are open till Nov 10

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: