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I would wager that very few engineering managers have significant formal training in management. While software engineers can hold a wide variety of degrees, the most common is a CS degree, and few of those include significant coursework specifically about engineering management.

Thus, unlike with IC-track positions, it is likely that an engineer promoted into a management role is coming in cold. And while there are a variety of helpful books and training materials about engineering management, in general new EMs are expected to mostly learn by doing.

“Learn by doing” can be tricky, however, because many of the issues a seasoned engineering manager is expected to be able to capably handle do not happen every day. They happen relatively infrequently, and sometimes only when you change teams, but you need to know how to handle them when they do occur.

Because engineering management is largely a “learn by doing” craft, and because it can take years in the role to experience even the half of what a seasoned EM is typically expected to be able to capably handle, I would argue that the best EMs are those who have had abundant opportunities to learn from their mistakes. But you can certainly speed that up at least a little bit by learning from other people's mistakes instead :)



Having experienced managers work closely with first-time managers is very helpful. Throwing first time managers into the position and hoping they figure it out is dreadful.

The actual training material available for EMs is not great. There are a couple decent books that will run someone through the basics of doing 1:1s, communicating with the team and upper management, and doing other basic manager stuff. Unfortunately the more expensive and longer form trainings are just versions of this same basic material stretched out into a slog of slides and quizzes you have to click through.

This void has also created a weird class of managers who have read every businesses book and trending LinkedIn post. This gives a false confidence that their book knowledge solves everything and makes them superior to “untrained” managers who haven’t read all the trendy business books. When someone can barely make it through a meeting without a “Have you read ____? It has something to say about this” flex then I start to suspect that they’ve let their book-based confidence take precedence over experience.

The trend is bad enough that I’ve had several peers or managers in recent years who almost couldn’t parse a situation without mapping it back to a book they had read. I lost a lot of time trying to explain to people that I have also read “The Phoenix Project” or “Turn the Ship Around” or other trendy books but the problem I’m describing is something else that can’t be solved by re-reading your book recommendations.


I was that manager for a bit. I think it’s a phase some of us go through because we are excited about what we learn just like an early mid-level would get excited about a new framework.

It takes a while until we get to “okay, I’ve read enough that this all rhymes.” I still pull out a “have you read” occasionally, though, because it is the easiest way to communicate a thought and I can’t assume a basic curriculum that all EMs share. It’s as if you couldn’t assume your peers had ever heard about microservices. It doesn’t mean that everyone needs to use one or that it’s always the right pattern, but it facilitates conversation and conveys an idea.


I don't think formal management training, e.g. an MBA, helps much. I think it's even harmful, as this type of training tends to be very generic and focused on high level matters.

In my career, these kind of "professional managers" have tended to be blunt instruments who don't respect or understand important information coming from their technical staff, and have caused a lot of damage as a result.

I genuinely think it's more than enough for a new engineering manager just to read a few books on how to do it well, and read articles like this one. So long as they take it seriously, meaning prioritising the management over any coding work they have, they'll do fine.

But surprising, most don't even do that. They get promoted, and then they just wing it. I've seen it happen repeatedly that they make no effort to study around their new role, and to hone their skill in it. It's quite strange.


I became an EM fairly early in my career, and was very aware of how much I didn't know, so I completed an MBA.

It helped with:

- the formal stuff of management; legal obligations, how to fire someone properly, etc.

- leadership training. The difference between leadership and management. What leadership involves, and how to do it well (although a lot of that is down to innate charisma, there are some things we can learn).

- basic management stuff: how to interview someone, how to organise a meeting, how to negotiate.

It was useful. I'm not sure I'd recommend it for everyone; I think I could have got the same benefit from a smaller, more focussed management course. But having an MBA as an engineer definitely leads to interesting places.


> I would wager that very few engineering managers have significant formal training in management.

I would wager this is true of most managers.

I would also wager that any formal training would fail HN approval anyway.


A bad manager can blight quite a few people's lives. I fantasise about there being an internship/registrar/apprenticeship system for managers.

An accreditation system with professional on-the-job evaluation on a regular basis would be ideal, but too hard to do in reality, I guess. I sure would like to work for a properly accredited professional manager, though.


I think one thing that makes it even more challenging is that most of us in Tech become managers after having been great ICs with good communication skills, and the transition is not always managed (pun intended) amazingly, both in terms of personal and company expectation changes.

Most ICs I know used to know their system amazingly well, being "tech leads" and became team leads. Most of them struggle to have to "share their time with those annoying tasks that take their time" and "not having enough time to code any more" not realizing that it's simply not their job any more.

Your job is to grow your team to succeed today and be ready for tomorrow, create the business value that is expected from you as a team, and grow your people. That typically means letting go of what you were doing yesterday.

I've seen people complain that because they have to manage a team they don't get to "have enough time to take all decisions in the best way" any more.

I don't think it's a failure of those managers as much as the managers above them. Most folks I know have the right social skills, it's expectation management and coaching about those expectations that they need the most.


This is so true. Being a freshly-minted EM is a full time job. Learning how to be an effective EM is another full time job, through reading, reflection, and instruction.

Shameless plug: I help EMs on this journey as a coach, advisor, and partner.


As someone with newly minted managing responsibilities, and some training in management as well, learn by doing is hella tricky and hard. I think people that start off as managers also go through this, and there is so much that you have to learn by fucking it up, running into problems, and pissing people off, when you want to help them.


I really hope this isn't universally true. While management training varies across industry and activity, and while there are lots of jokes about managers, the actual percentage of large disasters that occur under newly minted managers must be somewhat low otherwise the world would grind to a halt regularly.

Yes, software development / engineering may hold a special place due to frequency of "doing things we've never done before". Everything cannot rest on the manager's shoulders otherwise they are bottleneck and their previously-skilled peers are suddenly incompetent without them at their level.


It's not so much large disasters, as it is small bumps along the way, that most of the time the teams recover from. The thing is the things you learn about are often more subtle and happen on different time scales when you encounter them in the real world. And a lot of the time the work happens despite managers.


Though I would add that looking back to when I was an IC, my Computer Science degree hadn't given me much if any formal training in Software Engineering (especially in a large team and code base) and I mostly learnt by doing that also.


The industrial/corporate training provided at the university level is generally very very low. Doctors/Dentists/medical professionals are often thrust into systems where they are expected to handle billing and patients and paperwork and legal responsibilities. Experience during a residency is not sufficient if you are essentially starting your own business, even if you are joining an existing office.

Becoming an employer with responsibility for employee supervision, benefits, payroll, rent, etc is ignored in medical school.


One can also learn a great deal from their own (seasoned) engineering manager.


Of my first two hires, one was clearly over-employed and had to be let go, and one had to leave due to long COVID, which was heartbreaking. Thats a sort of “being thrown in the deep end” :).




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