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What costs that are rolled into Apple’s 30% are you saving on? Payment processing is let’s say 3% (including chargebacks). Delivering updates is just pushing bits, practically zero. What else are they doing?

If Apple features you, then I guess it’s pretty fair to say you’ve paid a marketing expense, but they feature a tiny percent of apps. Most of us get nothing but buried in the app store.

30% is a lot.



I'm not the person you responded to, but I'd also include stuff like developing the APIs developers use, Swift and SwiftUI, Xcode, developer docs, etc. Basically everything that Apple does that makes it possible for a developer to produce a high quality app on their phone. Apple has to pay for all that somehow, and that revenue has to come from somewhere. Product sales are one place, but it's a one time purchase and so there's even less incentive to support old phones. Charging per app install is a pretty easy way to do it, aligns the incentives decently well, and a cost to the developer proportional to how much users/benefit they get.

They could also just charge a large cost for access to the SDK a la console systems, or not actually track the downloads but have a license agreement where you pay based on your user base like other ecosystems (Unity?).


> Apple does that makes it possible for a developer to produce a high quality app on their phone

This is not one sided at all. Historically generally Apple benefited more from developers releasing apps on their platforms than the other way around. Arguably that's still the case.

> Apple has to pay for all that somehow

So by selling devices? How did they pay for developing OSX/macOS and their APIs and tools for decades?

> They could also just charge a large cost for access to the SDK a la console systems,

There are many exploitative and unfair things they could do because of their dominant positions in the market, yes that's correct.


> So by selling devices? How did they pay for developing OSX/macOS and their APIs and tools for decades?

Badly. They very nearly went bankrupt with that model.


> Badly. They very nearly went bankrupt with that model.

Like between 2000 and 2007? They did just fine, just like macOS is perfectly fine now.


Like between 1993 and 2000, only really turning around because Jobs was a hard-nosed businessman.

Also: is macOS "perfectly fine now"? How many people only use it because it's necessary for iOS development?


> only really turning around because Jobs was a hard-nosed businessman.

Exactly, he knew that the success of the platform relied on third party developers (NeXTSTEP was a huge improvement)

> Also: is macOS "perfectly fine now"? How many people only use it because it's necessary for iOS development?

I don't know? Do you? I would bet on around 5%. Although I'm not quite sure what's your point?

> Like between 1993 and 2000,

Which was a relatively short period, compared to their post 2000 succes.


Counterpoints:

1. Apple and Microsoft have both developed these things for 40 years without the fees and restrictions. They do it for the health of their ecosystem to sell devices/OSes.

2. The only reason there are two mobile OSes with significant marketshare (instead of more than two) is the app library. WinMo never took off because even though it was a wonderful OS, they couldn't get developers to make apps. It's hard to imagine now that any party, even one with practically infinite money like Amazon or Apple or Samsung, could develop a successful mobile OS because they'd be launching with two million fewer apps.

Chromebooks have been selling briskly with a relatively new OS because people no longer cared about apps on desktops when everything started working in a browser. This is the obvious attack vector for phones. If you can do everything in a browser you can do in an app, the door is open for another OS. That's why Apple doesn't want third-party browsers.


Apple doesn't develop those SDKs and tools in order to make money selling them to developers; Apple develops that stuff in order to sell iPhones.

Third party devs can and will develop their own tools and frameworks. Apple charges 30% simply because they can, and nobody has stopped them.


> Apple doesn't develop those SDKs and tools in order to make money selling them to developers; Apple develops that stuff in order to sell iPhones.

Nobody buys an iPhone because of the SDK.

Nobody… except perhaps developers.

Apple makes those things so that developers make more apps for their phones, which they want to support in order that people continue to buy new phones.

> Apple charges 30% simply because they can, and nobody has stopped them.

Yes.

And unless the government says "the thing we don't like is specifically the price", what you're going to get from demanding side-loading and other app stores is going to look like the same price charged in a more complex way that's distributed differently over all the developers.

This also means that it's likely some app providers will suddenly discover their costs go up.

As a consumer, I'm fine with however this shakes out: I spend almost nothing on apps anyway, and the selection is too large for me to care about the size and diversity within the marketplace.

As an iOS app developer, I have no idea how any of these options may or may not affect the demand for my skills on the job market, but I still don't care much because GenAI is a much bigger change than all of these options combined.

As an investor, I've been expecting Apple to hit the upper limit for corporation size before monopoly lawsuits 2 trillion dollars of market cap ago, which is one reason why I bought S&P 500 instead of APPL (the other being I'd like my income and my investments to avoid too many correlated failures).


> Apple doesn't develop those SDKs and tools in order to make money selling them to developers

Yes, they do. They explicitly stated so during the Epic trial. Otherwise there would be no fee at all.


To add to this historically Apple charged for OS updates. Windows still does. With iOS Apple switched their model to making the updates free and charging developers on the backend to monetize their software.

But most companies have some plan to monetize their software even if they also make money on the hardware.


Maintaining a high trust ecosystem is worth a LOT

https://9to5mac.com/2023/09/06/iphone-users-spend-apps/


Nothing quite says "high trust ecosystem" as when the people charging you 30% also make a buck on top from competitors putting their app in front of customers looking for your app by name.


999 million users don’t give a hoot about that. At all.


That said, a number of regulatory bodies found some things to say.


> What else are they doing?

The exact same thing Epic is doing with their games engines.

Building and supporting the SDKs that developers use to make money.


> Building and supporting the SDKs that developers use to make money.

You're implying that this is a somehow onesides transaction and Apple is doing developers a favour while Apple always needed third party developers as much as developers need them (with iOS of course this balance changed a bit which allowed Apple to become a lot more exploitative than they were before/still are if we're talking about macOS)


Yes, and Epic charges a lot less for their support. We say how Unity was eviscerated for a much cheaper runtime fee, I can't imagine Apple gets away with triple the pricing.


The SDKs that Apple provides are far broader and more lucrative than Epic's game engine.


Is it? Epic doesn't only provide and engine to make a game with. Online services, access to extremely high fidelity assets (meta human, Quixel megascans), photogrammetry. And of course it's working on its own store. All of these have a lower cut even if you don't negotiate.


The primary purpose of the 30% fee is not payment processing or delivering updates, it is the licensing fee for the use of Apple's intellectual property (SDKs and developer tools).


The primary purpose of the 30% is to get 30% of money. If apple could get away with 60 they would. Apple more than pays for the SDK development just with their cut of child casino apps they sell. Everything else is just free cash.


And? You can say the same about pretty much anyone that sells anything. Why does a restaurant charge $15 for a cocktail that costs them 50 cents to make?




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