Spoiler alert: the [edit: real, not stated] reason is because they bought it for the review, and the 14-day return period is expiring.
Dropping $3500+tax off the production budget and double-dipping for a second video/thinkpiece? That's irresistible for a content creator. So now we're getting a spike in "Vision Pro return" memes.
Most people naturally tend to emulate popular trends. They'll never say that's the reason, of course.
There's also just a classic thundering herd effect. There was a big spike as people tried it out, so there's a spike in returns on a ~2 week lag.
That means that for the 9 people interviewed that returned the devices, Bloomberg would have had to contact 900 AVP buyers just to find those 9 (1%). Either that, or the ratio is off.
"Too heavy". Multiple users are quoted saying that.
Carmack was right. Headgear needs to come down to no more than swim goggle size to be successful, and down to eyeglass size to go mainstream. I was expecting eyeglass-sized displays from Apple. This thing is as clunky as everyone else's VR headsets.
>This thing is heavier than a Quest 3 and doesn't even have a battery in it.
Apple has almost always been more form over function. Premium materials and slim, shiny looks over ergonomics. See the Apple mouse.
I think the last product Apple ever made that cared about ergonomics was the sunflower iMac G4, the best Mac Apple ever released, then the downfall started where everything needed to be unnecessarily thin and lacking in any adjustments for the sake of thinness and minimalism that look good in a white sterile showroom but suck at daily usage.
It wasn’t inconvenient because you could get a day’s worth of charge, from dead battery, in about ten minutes and it lasted many days between full charges. I used one for several months and never once was it any amount of problem or inconvenience. Time lost because I couldn’t use the mouse when I needed to was zero.
Meanwhile, I probably would have left it plugged in all the time if not for that, out of battery-anxiety from using crappy rechargeable accessories that charge slowly and discharge fast.
I didn’t need to be willing to inconvenience myself because it was never inconvenient.
OK, so not everyone remembers to plug it in, and when you are under pressure 10 minutes might just be a disaster, or at least very annoying.
It's fine if it works for you, but more broadly it's not very practical, and the reason for that is the long running Apple disease of form over function.
It’s a bad example because it’s really not a problem. There exist good examples. When people pick that one to call out it’s a good sign they haven’t used much Apple hardware (or they’d pick a better one)
I bought my first Mac in 1986 and kept on buying until about 2010 when the product quality turned to shit. I've used actual good Apple hardware but some who live in the current Apple ghetto have never had the experience.
They created many great machines in that time but also misguided junk. In my view the "magic" mouse falls into the later category.
But maybe try something other than an ad hominem or "my n=1 survey shows..." argument next time to be more convincing.
I have and it's indeed a terrible design for functionality.
It's just nice to look at. But there's a reason neither Logitech, nor Microsoft nor any other self respecting peripheral manufacturer copied or at least imitated that design, and it's not patents.
It's just awful and if it weren't made by Apple, nobody would be praising it.
For the real buttons. I do that too, solely because I also use that mouse for gaming. Apple mouse would be better otherwise, but I don’t want two mice.
Or sometimes people find a larger shape more ergonomic. Depends on the person and how they mouse, I think.
I had one of the wireless Apple mice at work for a while and it was a really good mouse. The “dumb” port (I agreed with this assessment before using one!) was never, ever any problem at all. At home, I use Logitech, because I also game with it and am willing to compromise a (very) little on its suitability for work to not have multiple mice.
I don’t love it, it was just an entirely fine mouse and the “dumb” thing wasn’t an actual problem. I tend to assume people who use that as their go-to example of Apple letting aesthetics beat function have just never used one and are guessing.
You want dumb design shit from Apple that’s actually inconvenient, losing USB-A even on Pro devices is up there. Not migrating iPhones and iPads to USB-C at the same time as going “all in” on it for laptops. The touchbar. The puck mouse. Examples abound.
[edit] oh man, cases that slightly zap you with electricity under certain circumstances. Cases with edges a little too sharp because that’s the aesthetic they wanted. “Holding it wrong”. I continue to regard the loss of the home button as a huge usability regression. Cables that fray very quickly if repeatedly placed under strain, because they wanted them to be very thin.
There are so many examples of actual problems with Apple stuff.
[EDIT EDIT] OMG those very dumb first-gen pencils with the easily-breakable male port and the dumb, highly-losable cap for it. And you needed an also-highly-losable tiny adapter if you wanted to charge it with, you know, a charging cable.
Yes. I also thought that was dumb. Then I used one for several months and it caused problems exactly zero times, and probably did lead to me not using it plugged-in all the time out of habit developed from other wireless accessories, so I re-assessed.
The original Google Glasses were closer to something that people could wear together other people not wearing them. There was a lot of ruckus about the camera and privacy violations. The VP also have a camera but nobody seems to be worried about it. Maybe 10 years of ubiquitous smartphone cameras made that argument moot.
Who's using them? Doesn't seem like theyre very popular - seems like people bought and failed to return them or are hopeful they'll become useful one day.
I see there are already 3D-printable hooks to use two Solo Bands at the same time because the official Apple way (Dual Loop band) is much worse for comfort.
I think Apple views this as a "minimum viable hardware" feature set, and it's only just now barely becoming possible.
This is the clunkiest headset Apple will ever release. See the iPhone 1. Apple will probably also move down-market with a future "Apple Vision S" product, deleting the front screen and further slimming the size.
I don't understand why people make comments like this which imply a uniquely "Apple" trait of product improvement. You could make all the same commentary to literally any other manufacturer of similar category products. Of course the second generation is going to be slicker and probably cheaper than the first generation, especially in a new category, that's really not insightful.
Their end goal is both the same. Meta is approaching it building a broad-appeal consumer device using tech that is cheap now, iterating over time to build something more capable.
Apple's made something with some better technical specs, with the costs they bring, ditching broad appeal. In a very different way, it seems as if Apple is going to ride out this platform and continue to iterate.
Have you actually tried it? There’s already over 1,000 apps and Apple Arcade has a very good immersive beat Sabre-alike in the store. There’s quite a few options for a device that’s only out for a few weeks.
From “spatial computer” (Apple’s first new platform they’ve described as a “computer” since the Mac) to the productivity-focused feature set to the pricing (AVP is on par with a well-spec’d MBP), clear Apple sees this as primarily an evolution of the laptop.
iPhones have only gotten bigger over time. To make a product dramatically smaller and lighter without severe compromises on performance and fidelity is extremely difficult. Just compare ear buds with proper ear-enclosing headphones.
Vision is no different: it’s just very difficult to build tiny, low power, ultra-high resolution displays. Then actually driving these displays is very difficult to do in a tiny package, due to the computing power requirements.
The rationale for embiggening the iPhone (screen size and ergonomics) doesn't apply to headsets.
That's missing the point. My comment wasn't about rationales, it was about the difficulty of miniaturization. The fact that the iPhone got larger -- and that consumers demanded a larger phone -- took all the pressure off the miniaturization program. That will not be the case for the VP.
Yeah but people literally have to use phones for basic functioning at work and private life, that was true 20 years ago already. Uncomfortable ski googles with many cons and little content costing up to 4k?
We all know there is going to be next gen which will be marginally better and marginally pricier. It will still not be enough to 'be there'. At that point the market for wanna-shop-this will be fully saturated. Good luck with that.
The only way to solve all this mess would be to have killer apps. So far what we have seen that even 3 trillion company can't put together much in this space quickly enough, so I am not holding my breath. And literally same problems are with other headsets released even 5 years ago - there is simply not good-enough and enough of content to make people buy it and keep using it. Apple must have seen this from 10 miles too and pushed hard, but reviews politely say all the same thing. Almost all folks here with earlier VR headsets write how after initial wow faded it collects dust in cellar now.
Me, I prefer watching movies from 4m on huge screen, the social aspect with family and simple freedom of movement in more cinema experience is great. For gaming these days PC monitors offer much better visual experience than even these VR goggles, over 40" high refresh say oled with good ie Sennheiser headphones and you are as deep as you want to be, and for many games (that I like to play if I have some time), mouse is simply a superior controller to anything else.
I’m not an “Apple’s biggest fan”, I used an Android all the way up until 2021 (and even now possess both a pixel 7 and an iPhone 13). I bought this, and I am not returning it. I planned to return it and buy in another state (tax free), but I am not even doing that because I use this thing everyday (my last day to return was yesterday).
At the same time, I am not interested in extolling its virtues beyond saying: try it. Maybe buy it and try it at home with your MacBook. Maybe you’ll get it, maybe it won’t be for you. What does it matter what others think?
Assuming you are interested strictly in productivity, probably not the best tool with those devices. However sunshine + moonlight does work quite well, so maybe? I use that combo for gaming.
It depends on what you’re trying to do. This is part of why I suggest trying it for yourself, it’s very hard to get a good sense from what others can say.
As for me, I wouldn’t replace my desktop with this personally (albeit I might get rid of my monitor) but it would very likely replace my MacBook Air at some point.
Two things I couldn't find mentioning in the article are virtue signalling and social media engagement. Why would "Apple's biggest fans" return it otherwise, even if they don't use it? If will be a flop, it will worth a lot of money in a few years. If will be a success, it will worth a lot of money in a few years. In any case, you want it in your collection, if you can put your hand on one...
I guess the value also depends on the remaining usability of the device. I must admit, for the past 2-or-so decades you are quite right: old iPhones, iPads, AppleTVs have been killed by Apple: they can't do a fraction of what they used to be capable of in their heyday. And their price indeed mirrors this.
Macs fared a bit better.
Let me extend my statement a bit then: if Apple doesn't press the self-obsolete-now button, then it will be a great relic.
I am surprised there was not a less lenient return policy on these devices. I don't know what the refurbishment process will look like, but if they replace all of the parts that come in contact with your head/face, there is a lot of waste being generated for each one of these that gets returned.
Sometimes I think, returns are a bit to easy. There are too many Apple fans with too much money who just ordered it for fun. And then discover that it is a very much first generation product.
I am absolutely thrilled by what I hear about the VP, but I am also quite sure that I want to wait for the first update before spending a lot of money on it. Because the hardware will be refined and of course, the software improved.
Returns for everything are too easy. Far too many people treat stores as “rental outlets”. Or purposefully buy three of something, try them all, and then return two. Nothing is more annoying than buying something you expect (and pay for) to be new and then realizing it was obviously a “return”.
"Indistinguishable from a pair of sunglasses" is pretty much a hard requirement for me to even try anything like this.
No doubt most of the clowns walking around in public wearing these things were paid influencers. There's probably a niche for something like this, but it's not ready to be a general consumer product.
> the clowns walking around in public wearing these things were paid influencers.
Could just be influencers making cool content for money (doesn't have to be paid) or people testing the limits of the pass through for fun. Even though this product has no use in my opinion, it's a cool product.
There have been a few articles like this and without a return percentage or number of returns it's a worthless waste of reader time. Of course some people who just wanted to try out the device will return it.
I would have a returned a first generation ipad as well (I did try it out on release day but after playing with it for 15 minutes I knew it wasn't for me)
Personally, I'd feel bad to buy one and return it a week later - I'd feed better to pay a restocking fee, because I want to try one out, but don't want to keep it..
Whatever. I am keeping mine. It's the future. It's addictive. It's magical. There isn't a lot of content, but I still haven't gotten bored enough to start coding apps on it.
I've done a number of hacks to get it to work, but using my Android phone as a Bluetooth keyboard is the killer app. Google keyboard swype plus the better Google voice recognition makes it usable. Also, I cut off the fabric of a backup light shield, so you can use it with peripheral vision. That's pretty decent for chores.
Give it a few weeks for bored people to start making apps, figure out how to limit YouTube on this thing so you're not turning into a wire head. I try to watch my 80" TV now, and it just feels too small and restricted.
This is just the news being news. If you're savy, and if you have a MBP, and especially if you're a developer, and especially if you have the money, it's legit. It's only going to get better. My thought was, better spend the money now and experience a revolution than wait a year for it to be even better, but too afraid to drop that amount of money when the second one is about to come out.
The rest of your comment I can get, but the last part is very hard to follow. As the tech evolves you would expect to either get similar features for cheaper, or to get more features for the same money. (Adjusted for inflation, iPhones etc follow this pattern for example.) So I don't really understand the whole concept of better to spend more money now than to spend less money in the future for a better device.
Because in the future you can also wait to spend less money in the future future for a better better device :)
No really, in that sense you want to jump in just after a significant change, to get the most out of the ‘new’, now. And they will never be a better time for that than on the first release. (Future changes being typically more diminishingly incremental as time goes on, at least relative to that point in time.)
My guess is he means it'll be omnipresent in 10 years like the Iphone is now. If this gets small enough, this could potentially replace phones entirely.
I worked for Apple retail many years ago, and Apple Store rental is a very real thing regardless of the product. In fact, when the Genius Bar repair queue got too long it was actively encouraged.
As much as I’d like it to be, I don’t think there is a mass rejection of the Vision Pro happening.
The iPhone, iPad, or Apple Watch had an affordable price when they were launched on the market. Perhaps they weren't the best user experience, but they also didn't cost that much. I would like to know how Apple would have fared if they had asked for $1500 for an iPhone that didn't have 3G connectivity or cut/paste. The Vision Pro is very expensive for the experience it offers and the limitations it has.
Dropping $3500+tax off the production budget and double-dipping for a second video/thinkpiece? That's irresistible for a content creator. So now we're getting a spike in "Vision Pro return" memes.
Most people naturally tend to emulate popular trends. They'll never say that's the reason, of course.
There's also just a classic thundering herd effect. There was a big spike as people tried it out, so there's a spike in returns on a ~2 week lag.