That your cultural bubble. At least two of the Roman Emperors were in same-sex unions and far more were openly in homosexual relationships. Sodomy was just part of the culture. But cultures change, Same-sex marriage was outlawed on December 16, 342 AD by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans. Of note there’s a significantly longer gap between emperor Nero and 342 AD than between the founding of the US and today.
I personally have some doubts about Elagabalus, the accounts sound like a hatchet job, it’s much closer in time to the actual ban. But, sometimes people are just nuts so we should expect some historical leaders to do some really strange things. The Nero account is both more neutral and the described wedding a public spectacle so it seems unlikely for someone to just make it up whole cloth. Though it’s also been debated extensively, we simply don’t have concrete proof either way.
In terms of legality of marriage in Rome, I mostly agree. Arguably male adoption of other adult men could be largely equivalent to heterosexual marriage as far as the state were concerned. Ie name change, social rank, and property as there’s no kids and no wife possibly leaving her father’s control depending on the type of marriage. To be clear it was often a political tool, but that doesn’t mean it was always a political tool. Just something to think about.
There’s written records of the relationships of Nero and Elagabalus as having a same sex marriage ceremony/relationship.
Some people discredit it for various reasons, but there’s zero direct evidence either of them are false, so by default we’re stuck assuming them accurate. This may bother you personally but ignoring evidence that you disagree with is living in a bubble of your own devising.
> Maybe you should read the Torah. Sodomy is listed as a mortal sin. You sound like an anti-semitic bigot.
That’s a very strong response to a simple factual statement, you may need to seek professional help.
Please don't cross into personal attack on HN, regardless of how bad another comment is or you feel it is. You not only did that here, you did it upthread too ("your cultural bubble"). I appreciate that you've been making substantive points but we need you to make them without breaking the site guidelines.
There are several independant accounts of Elagabalus, his behaviour is as well documented as any of those times to be sure.
That said, for context, he was hardly representative being described as "showing a disregard for Roman religious traditions and sexual taboos", claimed as having replaced "the traditional head of the Roman pantheon, Jupiter, with the deity Elagabal, of whom he had been high priest".
Most tellingly he lived fast and was assassinated at just 18 years of age.
I have no axe to grind here, it's a great little story from history; it should be made clear that both Nero and Elagabalus were relatively rare flamboyant exceptions to the norms of Roman leaders.
> How come you people always respond the exact same way?
Look, when multiple people suggest you might need professional help, it's legit a sign something is wrong.
No shit you can debate history, or you can go talk to someone it's probably time.
> roman emperor was executed by their own praetorian guards for degeneracy
> no evidence
If he was thought of a degenerate that's corroborating evidence here. This picking lines of thinking and then not making connections between them is not a good sign. If your thinking ahh it's obviously a conspiracy that's more evidence here.
Your going to ignore what I'm saying, but as one human to another seriously they may be some drugs etc that can help you get better.
PS: I am sorry if you found this post offensive. I had a more direct rebuttal when I reread "Standard M.O" and "it's always the" and I realized you really may think people are you to get you. Try and remember strangers aren't going to randomly focus on you over the other 8 billion people on the planet. So trust in apathy if nothing else.
As to recent trends, it’s far from a uniform shift globally. Uganda joined made homosexuality punishable by death just last year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Homosexuality_Act,_2023
Going back another 20 years. 1991 Iran declared homosexual gay sex as punishable by death.
Saudi Arabia has verified executions for homosexuality as recently as 2019.
etc