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Securities fraud again, funny that the guy who "bought Twitter" and shut down free speech ended up getting sued himself due to his own tweet (lying about # of Teslas being produced).

It's like a bully trying to chase someone but tripping over their shoelace in the first step, love it.

On self-driving: For several years the guy has been saying "next month" "next year" it's been like 10+ years at this point. He's a bigger grifter than the Ashes of Creation guy (8 year long Kickstarter MMO that never launched and still collects payments to this day). Wonder why anyone falls for it, feel bad for the gullible.



I believe you can summarize Mr. Musk's persona (including his speech and promises made or hinted at) as "unreliable".


1) Linking to Tweets still exists, and doesn't require that you're logged in to view them.

2) According to their own released numbers (which you may or may not trust), the usage of the platform is at a record high.

3) They've unbanned many accounts that were previously banned and seem to display a wider tolerance for free speech on the platform. The innovative community notes feature is sometimes helpful to point out misinformation, but misinformation thrives on the platform.

4) They've pushed back on various foriegn governments requesting data on users and requesting users or posts be banned (see the ongoing dispute with Brazil.)

It seems more free, not less free.


> 4) They've pushed back on various foriegn governments requesting data on users and requesting users or posts be banned (see the ongoing dispute with Brazil.)

But not in India, nor Turkey, there Twitter under Musk has abided by the requests to silence people.

Why is that is a good question, it could be political alignment (Modi and Erdogan are from a different political stance than Lula), it could be because Musk seeks to exploit Brazil's lithium, we can't know but he's been pretty selective in where to pick a fight so we can only assume is due to other circumstances than anything to do with freedom of speech.


> The innovative community notes feature...

... was built and released pre-Musk, when it was called "Birdwatch".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Notes

As for government requests, for every Brazil there's an India. https://theintercept.com/2023/03/28/twitter-modi-india-punja...

"Twitter accounts from over 100 prominent politicians, activists, and journalists in India and abroad have been blocked in India at the request of the government. On Monday, the account of the BBC News Punjabi was also blocked — the second time in a few months that the Indian government has used Twitter to throttle BBC services in its country."

"At the time that Musk took charge of the company, it had a mere 20 percent compliance rate with Indian government requests. Following massive layoffs that reduced 90 percent of Twitter India’s staff, the platform appears to have become far more obliging in the face of government pressure, as its actions to censor its critics now show."


> It seems more free, not less free.

Regardless of whether or not that statement made is true - the problem is that of misinformation distribution. Social media isn't socially useful if it's being leveraged to influence ideas that are not factual.

Given that the owner of the platform has pushed misinformation and also sells products that don't align with what he's promised, at least to me, would lead me to question the statistics that are self-published and unable to be publicly validated.


I think Musk is just relaying the promises he receives from ML/AI guys he employes. As far as I know FSD has always been a paid option.


And after years of publicly looking like a lying car salesman, why would he still listen to those employees? I don’t think it’s the line employees that are lying here.


The way I understood it went down for the CEO:

1. Made optimistic claims about future product.

2. Some of the people tasked with implementation disagreed about optimistic claim.

3. Those people got fired for underperforming.

4. All people on the team tasked with implementation agree with optimistic claim.

5. Doubled down on the promise.

Repeat every year.

I can't see how a CEO could be blamed in this scenario, as clearly they were lied to by their subordinates.


The CEO is still responsible for their own employees, CEO hired them or directed them to be hired, the CEO (especially this CEO) runs the company.

Lying about features or the number of cars being produced etc. can't be limited to mere optimism because they mentioned specific numbers in a public way that were not true.

> fired for underperforming

The irony, since Musk destroys every brand and product he's ever touched. I've never seen a more polar opposite to the Midas effect at work. It has to be intentional.


Why should a CEO be responsible for their employees if they could instead take a huge pay package which they are obviously entitled to given they have to work around their lying employees?

That too was sarcasm :-)

You shouldn't be too hard on Musk regarding the "destroys" though: Many people are so incompetent you don't even get to hear about their failures! And others loot professionally without you ever getting to know about it. You have to ignore a lot to state "it has to be intentional".


Satire requires a clarity of purpose and target, lest it be mistaken for, and contribute to, that which it intends to criticize.

See also: Poe's Law.

Unless you include some clear indicator that you are being sarcastic, posts like this will be seen as fully sincere by many, many people.


True. Sometimes the disconnect bothers me more, sometimes less. There's the hilarity of having fanboys agree with me, which happens sometimes when Tesla's on the menu.


This is irrelevant, he is public CEO and has tons of responsibilities. Basically lying to millions of customers in very public manner is a serious issue.


FSD, in its current iteration, is not what Musk has promised since 2016. FSD is not autonomous or even remotely close to driverless operation as he's claimed it would be. FSD is ultimately a marketing gimmick.


I am sure if he allowed customers to get refunds on FSD, the DOJ wouldn't open a criminal case.


Given what I've read about his management style, I doubt it's like that. Probably more like:

Musk: Hey get your shit together I want this done by the end of the year

Team: Okay we'll try

Musk: Okay we'll plan on that


> "bought Twitter" and shut down free speech

Citation needed. The platform is more open and vibrant than ever, even going so far as to reinstate free speech that old Twitter shut down at the request of the US government. If anything, he liberated free speech and it shows.


> The platform is more open and vibrant than ever

You reveal your lack of experience with Twitter, it's declined a lot.

Pretty sure you can't even link to a tweet (a xweet?) from a news article or blog post - they totally killed the platform, not sure where you've been.


What you claim is clearly incorrect. First, major news outlets all over the world are still linking to twitter posts daily, not least because most of the worlds journalists are still actively using twitter, so obviously this feature still works. Also, there has never been more product development on Twitter/X than since the Musk takeover. Examples include community notes, creator revenue sharing and the features tied to the purchased blue checkmark (eg. Posts longer than 280 chars).

The major handicapping of the platform compared to earlier is that only the post linked to is now visible to non-users, whereas the whole thread it was part of was previously visible.


> Examples include community notes...

No, they don't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Notes

"In November 2022, at the request of new owner Elon Musk, Birdwatch was rebranded to Community Notes..."


A lot of people are really defensive about this. What's the big deal if X does well? Why are people so personally invested in pretending like Elon didn't do the world a huge service by removing Twitter from the control of possibly the most politically extreme and anti-constitutional subculture in the entire country?


> the control of possibly the most politically extreme and anti-constitutional subculture in the entire country?

What are you trying to refer to here? Because the most politically extreme and anti-constitutional subculture I can think of right now is QAnon, which has not (nor is not) in control of Twitter.


Ever been to San Francisco? Portland? Seattle?


I personally preferred the original politically extreme and anti-constitutional subculture better.


At least you're honest.

Everyone must remember that "they" and "their side" are capable of the same evil as their enemies. The existence of a truly open discussion must be sacred, or we might as well dismantle it all.

Or, if your goal is to dismantle instead of building or fixing things, remind me to never let you have any power.


I can tell by the upvote/downvote dance on the parent comment - people love their celebrities. They get really mad if you talk bad about Elon Musk lol I find it quite pathetic personally.

I of course disagree - I don't see the "huge service". Everything from defrauding investors, customers, speaking out of school (saying he's a physicist in the early days), hanging out with Ghislaine Maxwell, stealing then tanking Tesla, destroying Twitter, he's a walking disaster to the point I believe it's intentional.


I'm not sure how you'd see the "dance" but anyway...

I'd hold the "visited decisive politics" hypothesis at a much higher probability over "celebrity parasocial loyalties" for down and up voting in this case.

That said, trying to guess at the motivations of the diverse crowd here is fraught at best.


Really you've never seen a comment of yours bounce around negative and positive on polarizing issues? It's kinda cool to see, makes this platform feel more solid than others.

> celebrity loyalty

You must have missed that meme https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/477/624/072...

It was in response to the insufferable worship happening in comment sections everywhere. I wonder how much he was paying for PR each month back then, and what agency he uses. At any rate, that there was a good meme.


I have seen mine be down voted at times and then later up voted but not in a responsive sense. Have I missed a feature or maybe you're using an outside reader?

Regardless, I've only noticed for my own account. Perhaps you own both accounts?

I completely miss all the memes as a rule, thanks for sharing.


I posted the parent comment. Referring to the parent comment of MisterDizzy's.

I only have 1 account, though I probably should create a burner for certain topics... it seems that just 1 bad take here can destroy a career. Can't wait til this authoritarian phase is over, just want to share opinions again and it not matter that much.


Thanks for clearing up my confusion, sorry for it.

Turning otherwise intelligent people against one another is an old and battle tested control and mitigation strategy but yeah, it feels bad. Turns out nothing inherently keeps us from just doing better.

May have to start a company though.


> people love their celebrities. They get really mad if you talk bad about Elon Musk lol I find it quite pathetic personally.

People have strong opinions about celebrities they don't know, don't have any control over and have zero material stake in; news at eleven. (The last is the only one that isn't sometimes true about Elon.)




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