> *Signal might, but onboarding is "hard" (and the nerds argue and that's all ot...

godelski · 2024-10-21T04:45:58 1729485958

  > message history functionality is too restrictive for me.

At least a way you can get around this is to do the backing up by desktop. I'm assuming you're on an iPhone because Android supports backup.

If you are Android, see Molly: https://github.com/mollyim/mollyim-android

  > Telegram strikes a good balance, and wins at the UI/UX game.

Telegram gets the "lol" because it's not default E2EE. They advertise themselves as E2EE but most people are not using this feature because it's opt in. If you're going to seriously position yourself as a security app, the defaults have to be secure. It's the bare minimum.

And E2EE isn't even available for group chats... WhatsApp is more secure (telegram also gathers metadata)...

I do think signal has stagnated while there are many things that could really be improved, including low hanging fruit like just being able to search for stickers (people do in fact care). But for the most part, I'm not sure there's anything major missing. It seems like we're willing to pay high costs to avoid small thorns. But I guess it's better to have a rock on your shoulders than a needle in your finger.

ValentineC · 2024-10-21T04:54:12 1729486452

> Telegram gets the "lol" because it's not default E2EE.

I use Telegram mostly for group chats, pretty much as an IRC replacement. I think that's where it really shines. :)

Agreed that even WhatsApp is more secure, but if I remember correctly, they do not promise that metadata is E2EE (if that's even possible), and Meta harvests that.

godelski · 2024-10-21T05:31:58 1729488718

But just to be clear, telegram is not a privacy nor security app. It's just a communication app. It's fine that you use it, but just making sure you aren't calling an orange an apple (eat whatever fruit you want, I'm not a cop).

  > they do not promise that metadata is E2EE (if that's even possible),

Sure it's possible. Signal does do this as well as many VPNs, things like encrypted DNS, tailscale and so on.

It's important to remember that it's also not binary. There's a whole range of metadata is. You can leave a footprint that's a very clear image of your shoe or you can leave a footprint that's a smudge that's only approximately in the size of your shoe. If you're concerned then the difference matters a lot.

While you won't leave zero trace the aforementioned apps (like signal and mullvad) do minimize the collection to the point where it isn't very useful. I mean it's metadata that you're a person, but that's not going to be helpful to identify you. Even knowing your gender probably won't but metadata's power is in it's accumulation.