The reason it doesn't make sense to people like him (and me) is that we look at all the times he promised to release the health care plan, the January 6 incident, the calls to states to "find" votes, the constant complaining about rigged elections, the constant complaining about basically EVERYTHING he doesn't like, and more, and we don't see how anyone can overlook that. He never answers policy questions clearly. He doesn't understand tarriffs will raise our prices. He thinks RFK should be in charge of HHS. He wants to shut down TV networks that criticize him.
When I ask folks why those things don't matter, I either get "what about So-and-so," or "I don't believe that," or they just blow off the question without an answer. I even went to the Ask a Conservative sub on Reddit and asked why people think millions of noncitizens are voting in elections, and I got yelled at, called naive, and told that some local municipalities allow non-citizen votes in local elections so therefore they can vote federally too.
That said, I'd LOVE to know why none of the things Trump says or does dissuades his voters. Truly, because I really do not understand. I don't want to argue, or to try to convince you you're wrong, I would love to know why those things don't matter and you think Trump is a force for good.
> we look at all the times he promised to release the health care plan, the January 6 incident, the calls to states to "find" votes, the constant complaining about rigged elections, the constant complaining about basically EVERYTHING he doesn't like, and more
Have you considered the possibility his supporters know something you don't? A lot of what you mentioned is either debunked or is fraught with misinformation
Yes, I HAVE considered that, it's why I keep ASKING Trump fans. I even stated in my comment that I never get real responses. I get responses like yours, which is "you're wrong, it's been debunked" but I'm never let in on the debunking evidence.
I'm dead serious and 100% sincere: Please show me the evidence. I REALLY want to see it. I don't believe people, I believe data. I don't even believe MYSELF without data.
I live in Georgia, I heard the tape with Trump and Raffensperger, but if you have evidence that call is somehow not true, please share it.
I heard Trump say he has "a concept of a plan" on Healthcare 8 years after he told me he already had a plan. If he's got an ACA replacement, I'd love to see it. I don't understand why it has to be repealed before it can be replaced, usually we just pass new laws that supersede the old one, but whatever, I'll look at whatever you have.
I don't think you can provide evidence that he doesn't complain about everything he doesn't like, every rally comes with a list of grievances. But again, if you have evidence, I'll look at it with an open mind.
And even if you don't have evidence for those things, show me what evidence you DO have, I'll be happy to examine it. I even looked at the stuff Mike Lindell released. I'll always look at evidence, but I just can't do the whole "do your own research" thing any more.
And, as I sadly expected, no response, no evidence, no showing me where I'm wrong. So I have no better idea than I did before. I don't know how a country can continue to exist when citizens won't even talk to each other. I'm so disappointed politicians have created such a divide within the country, and I don't think we'll make it without overcoming it.
explain how him saying for over two years that he would have a healthcare plan in some number of weeks (changed several times) is debunked or misinformation. Because we all watched it.
What a great skipping-record case-in-point. I almost think this is satire.
> Have you considered the possibility his supporters know something you don't?
They literally considered that, it's a main point of the post you're replying to, they got answers that lacked actual details or hinged on hyperbole.
> A lot of what you mentioned is either debunked or is fraught with misinformation
See what I mean? "A lot" meaning what number of things? Either debunked or is fraught with misinformation? What does that even mean? Which things? Jan 6 is "debunked" or "fraught with misinformation" or both? Trump didn't release his health care plan, Trump called GA to find votes, Trump constantly complained about rigged elections. Those are sincere and unarguable facts. What are you speaking about in rebuttal?
> They literally considered that, it's a main point of the post you're replying to, they got answers that lacked actual details or hinged on hyperbole.
I appreciate that someone actually read my post. I'm not happy to say that's the usual reply I get from Trumpers, just an angry "you're wrong" and no discussion. I'm out of ideas on how to get them to engage in a conversation. I hate arguing. I really, really just want to understand their point of view but I just get yelled at.
And I'm NOT trying to denigrate anyone with that statement, it just feels like there's so much anger between Americans that it's hard to get someone to believe I'm sincere when I don't agree with them. It seems to immediately cause them to shut down and go into anger mode rather than just explaining to me why they feel I'm wrong.
He's got them convinced that people who disagree can't be trusted, and it fucking *hurts*.
His supporters realize he is a blowhard and adjust accordingly. Shut down a TV network? Lock her up? It's BS. I don't like it much, but for him it's a rhetorical device.
By contrast when Biden calls me garbage, I'm pretty sure he means it.
First, Harris isn't Biden. Second, when Trump calls immigrants criminals, I'm pretty sure he means it. How many generations do you have to look back before you find an immigrant among someone you call friend or family? We are a nation of immigrants, a country less than 300 years old. And who does he mean when says immigrants? It never seems to be that nice German couple down the road who _look_ like the other European folk that happened to immigrate a few generations earlier.
> His supporters realize he is a blowhard and adjust accordingly.
He's not, though. A lot of Trump voters were shocked when he really tried to repeal the ACA. Marketplace did a piece on it, visiting Erie county PA after the repeal efforts. You shouldn't assume he's BSing, as he's tried to do just about everything he said he would. I can't imagine voting for someone and thinking, "Oh, he'll never do the things he says he will."
Great question, and well phrased. It's refreshing to see a few people in this thread with a genuine interest in trying to understand the root causes instead of engaging in personal attacks and emotional appeals.
I found it helpful to go directly to commentators on the right for deeper analysis. The average Trump voter generally has a hard time articulating specific reasons. Same is true on the left. Not to say they don't have valid reasons for their votes, but it's difficult for most people to remove the emotion online and clearly articulate substantive reasons.
This really requires a much longer essay. I found it helpful to set aside the impulse to immediately say "yes, but Trump did the same thing but worse." For the sake of brevity, the below focuses on the Democrat's mistakes which I believe were the ultimate root issue.
The summary of my analysis so far:
Trump rose to political fame in 2008 off the ridiculous "birther" claims against Obama. The left saw his success and has been trying (and failing) to beat him at this new media race to the bottom game. The Democratic party has strayed way too far from the center over the past few years. Kamala was the most progressive (far left) Democrat candidate in the history of the US. She ran a short campaign with many critical mistakes.
Because Kamala never clearly articulated her plan for the country, this left a lot of undecided Americans feeling like she was being controlled by the Democrat leaders and potentially hiding plans for overly unpopular (by majority) progressive policies. Specifically the plan to tax unrealized capital gains. She also made many of the same mistakes of Hillary Clinton's campaign assuming white women and black males would vote for her because of identity politics instead of winning them over on her policies. The right and center voters are extremely tired of being talked down to and lumped into identity politics.
In the end, Trump's campaign did a better job swinging back to the center while Harris's campaign left a lot of open questions on the table. This is a well documented mistake in American election political history. It almost always costs the win in a close election. Perception is everything. An ultimately the critical mass votes on policies and plans (whether real or perceived) vs character.
Why did Trump supporters ignore his atrocious behavior? They didn't, at least not completely. Mostly, the left's insane tactics of trying to equate Trump to Hitler using out of context sound bites backfired. There was a tremendous amount of social media activity on the right countering every one of these attacks using the source material from Trump's speeches. It made the left and mainstream media untrustworthy. All Trump had to do was pull back from using the same tactics (which the right uses just as much as the left) a couple months ahead of the election. This allowed the left to dig their own grave with undecided voters. Notice Trump stopped (or substantially reduced) using nicknames and personal attacks on Kamala many weeks ago.
Given that the right and most of the center lost all trust in mainstream media, it made it easier for people to rationalize. "Yes, Trump is morally bankrupt, but we had 4 pretty good years under his previous presidency. So I'll vote on the issues and not character."
And issues for most Americans always comes back to economy and taxes.
The short of it: Democrats lost the election more than Trump won.
Here are some videos that dive deeper into the analysis.
Piers Morgan - see Cenk Uygur's (Democrat) critique of the left. He's been highly critical of the way Democrats are playing politics for many years.
Winston Marshal - ignore the "libtard" and gloating; Winston has been ruthlessly attacked by the left for years and this video is not his normal tone; pay attention to the examples of where the left used Trump soundbites out of context to try to paint him as the next Hitler
When I ask folks why those things don't matter, I either get "what about So-and-so," or "I don't believe that," or they just blow off the question without an answer. I even went to the Ask a Conservative sub on Reddit and asked why people think millions of noncitizens are voting in elections, and I got yelled at, called naive, and told that some local municipalities allow non-citizen votes in local elections so therefore they can vote federally too.
That said, I'd LOVE to know why none of the things Trump says or does dissuades his voters. Truly, because I really do not understand. I don't want to argue, or to try to convince you you're wrong, I would love to know why those things don't matter and you think Trump is a force for good.