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> I find it fascinating that people are putting so much efforts optimizing exploitation techniques, yet ~nobody bothers fixing them, even if it only takes a couple of lines of code and 20 minutes.

There's definite reward in having a 0-day. Either you can get a bounty, or sell it in the hacker-souk.

That "couple of lines of code and 20 minutes" is sort of in the eye of the beholder. If you are a highly-experienced language developer, the fixes are likely to be a lot more obvious, simpler, more comprehensive, and robust, than if you are a relatively junior IC.



I think if somebody wants to describe themselves as an "ethical hacker", and a conference wants to let people talk about exploits they've found, the minimum bar for disclosure is at least a description of a mitigation that could be taken, and ideally an actual code diff if its an open source project.

There's a bit of street cred for finding a 0day, a bit of glamour about figuring out the puzzle. There's not much for the person who fixes it. I think as an industry it might be worth trying to fix that somehow.


Selling hacks is ethical


Let's suppose you are right. Why not accompany that with a proposed fix, too?


Don’t necessarily agree that selling hacks is ethical, but if I already spent time figuring out how to exploit a system - reporting it to the relevant place is charity. Ill do that, but Im definitely not spending time trying to fix the code if the solution isn’t immediately obvious. ++ so if you have to fight to get the bug recognised in the first place


Why? And: Always?


Paying for bounties is paying for exploits. That is to say, choosing not to pay for exploits is tantamount to selling your customers off for a price, the price of the bounty.


I actually agree, in the same way that selling lock picks or guns is ethical. They are just tools. How they are used is the responsibility of the person wielding them.


I can think of benign uses for lock picks and guns. What is the benign use of a secret exploit?


One example I can think of is the WoW private server Warmane uses an RCE to extend client functionality.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wowservers/comments/1eebxwf/warning...


You've never needed to get root access on an old computer when nobody knows the password?


it doesnt have to be secret. for example unlocking old phones. There are certainly people waiting for the right exploits to get access to their old wallet.


I think it is probably because a lot of things are deemed as acceptable. For example, the stream filter chain one is only exploitable if the input to some php IO functions like file_get_contents are attacker-controlled, and those things are already treated as LFR vulnerabilities in application, not the language runtime. Also some of the them (e.g. stream filter chain) are fun and useful enough (turning LFI into RCE), so I bet there definitely some people would rather those thing is not fixed. Given that a properly-secured application wouldn't be affected.


Breaking something is easier than protecting everything from all fronts.

Hackers write the worst code, but all the mess needs only one successful hit to become a 0day.


Instead of making a website about it, you can take any step of your exploit chain and change the code that exploit cannot possibly work, and submit that as patch. You would still get a CVE number assigned that you can add to your resume.

For example, look at the glibc/iconv CVE some other user posted[1]. In the section "Out-of-bound write when converting to ISO-2022-CN-EXT" they have mapped out the boundary checks. By diagnosing the problem this detailed, they already did 90% of the work. The other 10% are the patch and writing to the mailing list.

[1] https://www.ambionics.io/blog/iconv-cve-2024-2961-p1


Making a website about it benefits other people; finding the vulnerability helps other people; even if its 10%, why can’t someone else do it?

Surely someone doing all this would already have submitted a patch if they felt comfortable.


When liability and cybersecurity laws start being more hardly enforced, many companies will certainly bother to fix them.

It like no one cares to keep a kitchen clean, or a factory in order, until the inspection shows up and closes doors.

Naturally even for those, we are at various levels of how those inspections are honestly enforced across the globe.


Well, you can produce the exploit all on your own and showcase it.

But to get your fix in, you'd have to interact with the PHP ecosystem.




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