Ah yes the classic "huwhite people and muh racism" gambit.
It's tired. H1Bs are gamed to the point of uselessness. Most companies internally post H1B job offerings so people are aware. I've yet to see one with a competitive salary. They are used to source cheaper labor and avoid paying actual Americans the fair wage they deserve. The last 15-20 years of tech has slowly seen the InfoSys-ization of the tech economy. I work with more contractors from Mexico, India, and Eastern Europe, and more H1Bs from India than literally anyone else. On my team I can count the number of Americans on one hand.
The program should be extremely limited. I am a fan of charging 2-3x the normal tax rate for H1Bs so companies have to actually justify hiring "talent you can't find in America". There are 300,000 unemployed tech workers. I find it hard to believe none fit the bill. Just that most won't take a 60% haircut for more work.
I have been on H1B forever now, and my salaries have been more or on par with the role. I tend to agree there is a lot of H1B misuse, especially by large Indian consulting firms. This needs to be curtailed.
But, there may be 300,000 unemployed tech workers. While I also find it hard to believe none fit the bill, I believe most don't. So many are out of random bootcamps, self proclaimed programmers who can't solve fizzbuzz. I also have not seen any H1B in my career that is good and willing to take a 60% haircut. In my own company, they are the highest paid and are grumpy we are not paying more. They are all really good engineers too. Heck, when I was looking to move to the US, I refused tons of low paying jobs. When we opened up backend programming jobs, only a handful American citizens even applied. We hired one of them, while we needed 4. The rest didn't make it through the interview process. We also rejected tons of H1bs because they didnt make it through the process. Same salary range offered to H1Bs. And we are a fully remote. So I wonder where are these 300,000 unemployed tech workers.
Cut the fraud and it automatically becomes a decent program. Now, if one is entirely against the program of attracting foreign talent, thats a different discussion.
Well, the way program exists now, it's utilized by two kinds of companies:
1) Someone like Verizon that uses it for cheap labor
2) Someone like Netflix that wants to hire good engineers
The way the program works now (before those changes?), it's much easier for group 1 to fill its positions via staffing agencies overseas. That's true even if a company from group 2 already know who they want to hire, since it's a lottery system.
Would be easier if this were two different visas (or program got revamped in a way that it actually works as it's sold to public), but we can't have "Cheap Human Labor Visa" for various reasons.
every problem has a solution except in America where what we THINK is a problem (and discuss ad naseum on HM) is there by design. Group 1’s lobbyist are paying A LOT more than Group 2 - hence they get the most benefit out of the program. it’ll be interesting to see next four years, I suspect the program will at minimum triple
I have a hard time hiring an American too, especially for backend jobs. But thats because they simply don't apply to the open positions we have. We don't disclose salary upfront, so the argument that "you pay less thats why" doesn't hold. We just don't get those resumes - through recruiters, direct channels, LinkedIn - even when we said we prefer citizens (due to legal costs).
The American people get to decide who they want to allow in and under what conditions. If the American people decide that they should get compensated more than non-American citizens for a role falling under American jurisdiction, they can do that. And other nationalities can retaliate or pound sand, but that's it.
Other countries are free to compete, nobody is arguing otherwise, but it is explicitly the right of any country to determine who is allowed to compete within their nation.
What people want or deserve is irrelevant. If you live elsewhere and feel you deserve more, then that's not America's problem.
That was the context. Your post before this changed it to "want". I was responding to that. Nothing to do with non-americans feeling they deserve more either. It was about why americans feel they deserve
You may characterize it that way, and invite some pretty reasonable animosity; but if you do, then want!=deserve regarding the salary of foreigners, either.
I was paid between 400 and 600k a year while on an H1B.
> I am a fan of charging 2-3x the normal tax rate for H1Bs so companies have to actually justify hiring "talent you can't find in America".
This is extraordinarily racist if you spend more than 5 seconds thinking about it, and honestly you should question every one of your choices that have led to this point. It is time for you to re-examine your entire worldview.
Why write like this? It's antagonistic and pompous. I really don't like making light of racism by leaning on the "stop calling everything racist" trope response, but this is pretty extreme. I have no idea what's in the parent's heart, but you only need to give them an ounce of benefit-of-the-doubt to believe that the quoted sentence comes from a place of simple favor for one's own fellow citizens, and not petty racism. And on HN, you're supposed to be giving even more than one ounce of benefit-of-the-doubt.
To be clear, the actual proposal being made is "I am a fan of charging 2-3x the normal tax rate for H1Bs".
One interpretation is that workers should pay 2-3x the income tax, massively depressing net wages for people on visas.
Another interpretation is that employers should pay 2-3x the payroll tax (I guess Social Security and Medicare in the US?) which again means that (not immediately due to nominal wage rigidity, but over time) visa worker wages will be depressed. In any case, visa workers pay into social security, but will not be able to claim benefits unless they become green card holders.
There are already substantial fees employers have to pay, which already depress wages. The proposals suggest making it worse. There is no real thought behind them, no research, no data. Just pure naked nativism: workers must be punished even more than they are right now for daring to immigrate.
It is, in other words, extraordinarily racist. And if someone, through whatever life experiences, has come to believe that this is the way forward, then they absolutely should revisit their worldviews.
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Neither of these come anywhere close to addressing the actual problem, which is that it isn't the case that workers on visas have the same labor rights as everyone else. Workers on visas are preferentially hired by some firms because they will silently deal with abusive bosses, long work hours and sexual harassment. Giving everyone full labor rights addresses this issue completely.
Do you want H1B worker wages to be depressed, or do you not? Do you care about your fellow workers being sexually harassed, or do you not?
> I have no idea what's in the parent's heart
I don't, either, but structural racism is a million times worse than some rando shouting a slur at me.
> This is extraordinarily racist if you spend more than 5 seconds thinking about it, and honestly you should question every one of your choices that have led to this point. It is time for you to re-examine your entire worldview.
No. Americans should look out for Americans first. This isn't "racism". It could be interpreted as "nationalism" but if Americans don't look out for Americans first - what's the point of even having a country or a flag? I've spent a lot of time thinking about it. Why shouldn't we make companies pay more if that foreign talent is really needed? It should be in desperation that you reach beyond your own countrymen to find what you need.
Second, I had no idea "Americans" were a race. Maybe it's you that should seek some help.
