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Bullshit. Nature evolves through small random mutations. Random mutations can't build structures like Aeroplane or a Watch. That requires thought and creativity. Advanced civilizations would continue to use creativity. And hence making them distinguishable from structures that are present in Nature.


So birds and circadian clocks accurate to seven years are not the result of random biological mutations?


You can tell a bird is built through evolution pretty easily. Lot of give aways in the structure which serves no point or is badly designed because mutations can only change small changes at a time without being able to think through to future.

I am not saying random mutations can't build entities that are accurate or can exist in reality. Of course they can. But it's also pretty obvious these structures are result of mutations and not creative thought.


As far as we know, creative thought, at least in humans here on earth, is an outflow of evolution through natural selection. In that sense, creative thought is produced by evolution, and not some supernatural phenomenon. There are some that talk about consciousness and intelligence as something that permeates the universe and hence orthogonal to evolution on earth, but that is highly speculative and not scientific assertion.


Bedrock on Scientific knowledge is also a widely speculative assumption that a physical reality exists outside consciousness.


it's a wildly speculative assumption to believe the world existed before last Thursday!


It could be something like Minecraft right? You experience it constantly but there is no physical existence outside consciousness.

Also last Thursday is also just an idea. There no Physical representation of last Tuesday out there. Tuesday is also merely an idea.

There is only the now.


That is the other possibility.


Intriguing new perspective.

>Random mutations can't build structures like Aeroplane or a Watch.

Perhaps that's why nature evolved us (randomly or by some not-entirely-random 'mechanism' we haven't spotted - does it matter?) (Consider how many bacteria live in the human body. Could we even exist without them? ) ... WE could be the experiment that builds structures ... and is able to let the whole works look at itself.


This assumes nature has an intent, a plan and is conscious at a higher level. Is that what you are saying?


Nature could just have happened upon us. That seems to be the case, no?

In that sense the plane and the watch are just natural products, just like this website is.


Sure. I was talking from the context of this article though. What you are saying will reword the heading to Nature could be indistinguishable from Nature. Which I accept.


what? evolution isn’t just random mutation, it’s also environmental selection & recombination (for the most part iirc). in the right environment, if some species evolved some mechanism like flight or time keeping - so long as it would be beneficial to survival in the environment it will endure. it’s definitive proof you don’t need a conscious process to create complexity. sure there’s baggage & imperfections, but it certainly gave rise to higher order phenomena like consciousness & intelligence - if only by accident :)


Yes. What I meant was nature doesn't generate a mutation based on thinking through what is good for the species or individual. The mutations just happens randomly and the ones which are beneficial continue to pass through because it ended up in the genes that reproduced.

Unlike designing a plane for example which consists of thousands of decisions carefully thought through based on a human objective.




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