Laptops get stolen on a train? An enclosed, single-direction space that only occasionally allows you to exit between infrequent, long-distance stops? A thing that contains ticket inspectors and a literal guard?
How many laptops have you personally seen be stolen on a train?
You mean a tight, enclosed, single-direction space, crowded with people who are tired, and/or trying to relax, and/or thinking about the destination, and/or otherwise not particularly focused after hours of travel; a thing that contains ticket inspectors that show up every now and then to check tickets, and from which passengers embark and disembark at dozens point along the length of the thing, simultaneously, with no supervision or security checks.
Depending on the train type and configuration, many actually seem like pickpocket paradise.
Pickpocketing is a very different proposition. They relying on a lack of awareness, taking your wallet and being long gone before you’ve even noticed. If someone steals your laptop from in front of you without you even noticing I’d suggest that one is on you.
FWIW I’ve used my laptop on the train plenty, I’ve never had anything stolen nor felt in any danger of it.
You might have seen some laptops have screens that fold down, I know MacBooks do. This "clam shell" effect protects the keyboard, trackpad, and even the screen from bumps and jostles. Many laptops when so closed can even fit in a backpack.
So a little trick I figured out is to close my laptop lid and then slide it into a pocket of my backpack. I can then carry it with me when I get up and move around.
So then I can take it with me to eat lunch or an extended toilet break. Maybe some day all laptops will have that feature.
...why would I ever do that? You leave something worth several thousand dollars anywhere in public you're risking losing it. What are we even debating here?
Yes, all the time. It's happened to two people I know, in France and in the US.
People get up to use the bathroom or the cafe car, the laptop is left behind for ten minutes, one of the train stops is while they're away from their seat, and someone sees an opportunity, snags it, and gets off at the stop.
This is an actual thing. And if it's worth a thousand bucks then it's very much worth getting off at an earlier stop then you'd planned, and continuing your journey on the next train.
Ticket inspectors or guards are irrelevant. There isn't one in your car 99% of the time.
I don't why you're trying to argue laptop theft on trains in first-world countries isn't a thing. It absolutely is.
Different regions of the world would see different degrees of responsibilities regarding theft. I would consider absurd to leave unattended in a public space something valuable, considering the effort required to avoid that (that is: taking it with you).
So, yes, theft on trains for people that think they are 100% safe are a thing, but applying the same idea (to assume something is 100% safe and not be cautious) I wonder how do such people use the internet...
My coworker was having coffee and using his work laptop at an outdoor coffeeshop in Mountain View, CA. Someone on a bike rode by and attempted grab his phone and bike off with it.
The attempted thief didn't succeed in taking the phone, but did knock the laptop onto the ground, damaging it.
The discussion was about leaving unattended valuable objects in public places. Sure, a theft can happen even if attended, or using violence, but I personally avoid increasing the chance of having something stolen by leaving it unattended.
If I would make a statistics of primary cause of remaining without a laptop among people I know, the biggest danger is liquids in glasses (that ends up on the laptops) ...
You're going to take your laptop with you into the toilet on the train...?
I don't think I've ever seen a human being do that before on a train. Not to go to the toilet, nor to grab a coffee in another car.
You can't be paranoid about everything. My friend in France had put his laptop back into his bag where it wasn't visible and assumed that was good enough, but someone must have seen him do it and just took the whole bag.
You are applying a totally unreasonable standard, to suppose that the thefts were due to unreasonable carelessness. What, do you think someone should take their large luggage into the bathroom too, every time they need to pee?
Yes, if I go to the toilet I take my backpack/small bag with me, because usually I have valuable stuff in them and are easy to carry. This does not apply to a large bag (in which I don't put valuable stuff).
The standard is mine and I follow it. The same way I find absurd not to do it, you find it unreasonable to do it.
I find the expectation that things are not stolen (if unsupervised in public places) strange considering the huge amount of inequalities in wealth around even in civilized countries. I do not agree with the idea of stealing, thiefs should be punished, but expecting everybody "to behave" given the situation seems unrealistic to me.
That does not mean that I think that things are stolen 100% of the time. I have a friend that forgot a laptop on a bus (Netherlands) and the driver found it at the end of the line and gave it to lost objects so my friend got it back.
I mean, that's great for you, but it's not just what 99% of people do. You don't usually see people take their backpack into a train bathroom. I've taken a lot of trains and sat near the bathroom often enough (unfortunately). But like I said, it applies to the cafe car too.
If you find it absurd how 99% of people act on long-distance trains, I don't know what to tell you.
Ok - that's really poor opsec. If I'm going to the bathroom in a train with my laptop (whether it's expensive or not - it has access to all my stuff - which is arguably more valuable), I'll sleep it, put it in my backpack and take the backpack to the bathroom with me.
My work policies state you simply cannot leave your laptop out of sight for any period unless it's in a secure location (work|home). I feel the same way for my personal laptop as well.
You don't hear much about laptop thefts these days because phones are more valuable, more numerous, and much easier to steal.
Obviously, nobody steals things while the train is in motion. They wait until the train is about to leave the station, snatch a phone or handbag and jump out just as the door is closing. The train leaves, the thief blends in with other passenger leaving the station, and by the time news of the theft has made it from the passengers to the driver to the station staff the thief is long gone.
Of course people drive around $6,000+ cars all the time, so....
> Obviously, nobody steals things while the train is in motion.
Something interesting: I live near a train line where the doors are not automatic (they have to be opened manually on each stop), and there have been incidents where people get pickpocketed while the train is still in motion, and the thief jumps out right before the station, when the train has slowed down significantly but is still in motion. Many people have been hurt doing this.
Only on Hacker News would I have someone arguing with me that laptop theft is not a concern. You know what, you win. It's your $6,000 laptop, not mine.
A $6000 laptop doesn’t look much different than a $1000 laptop. I don’t think it’s a bigger theft risk than any other laptop.
Make sure the laptop is insured and that full disk encryption is enabled. If it’s a Mac, make sure you have it in Find My so you can wipe it remotely if that’s something you worry about.
Honestly, I didn't bother making a better case for why I wouldn't want a $6,000 laptop in large part because the nerve people have to argue that theft isn't a concern at all made me stubborn. Theft is one reason, but a laptop is also a hell of a lot easier to simply break or lose than a desktop that is permanently installed somewhere, and a desktop is more upgradable and repairable, with typically much more I/O.
Today's baseline laptops are really good as it is. 32-64 GiB of RAM is plenty, and at least on PC laptops you can do it fairly cheaply. Apple has been a consistent year or two ahead in mobile CPU performance but it fell out of my consideration ever since I realized the M1 and 7040 were both very sufficient for any local computation I cared about. (I'm not going to say I'd specifically go for less efficiency or performance, but it has become significantly lower priority over other things like repairability.)
Not really specifically hating on Apple, here. If I was going to get another Mac it'd be a Mac Mini or Mac Studio probably, ideally with a third-party SSD upgrade to both save on costs and get a slight bit of extra drive performance too. I've definitely considered it, even though I am very far from an Apple fan, just due to the superior value and efficiency they have in many categories.
For what it's worth, I never once insinuated that a laptop would get stolen on a train, only that I wouldn't want to bring such a laptop into the public in the first place. (Presumably, the laptop doesn't come into and exit existence upon entering and exiting the train, so this remains somewhat of a concern even if trains are involved.)
But yes, you're right. I've never personally seen a laptop get stolen. In fact, most people who have their laptop get stolen never see their laptop get stolen either.
I have, however, had coworkers who've had their laptops stolen. Multiple times.
How many laptops have you personally seen be stolen on a train?