Smart move. As a Verizon/Android customer, I'm a little miffed that my carrier is going with ASTS's quasi-vaporware over the proven Starlink constellation - baking support into the OS avoids unhappy customers and loaded *'s next to features.
I see you don't understand the technological advantage AST has in comparison with Starlink Direct-To-Cell connection. They are some years ahead in this game.
AST is already testing full broadband 5G technology fully integrated into the terrestrial networks without interference with Vodafone and AT&T and will get Verizon beta testing approval very soon.
What Starlink D2C currently has is a spotty text service with such a low signal strength that is useless for anything more. That is what they got approval for from FCC because any stronger signal is causing unacceptable interference with the current terrestrial networks and the terrestrial providers didn't agree to allow them more than that. It will take a year or two at least for Starlink to get to provide more than text and that is actually stated as well in the T-Mobile press release about this.
Other thing is difference in AST and Starlink architecture which makes Starlink not easy to properly integrate in the terrestrial networks since they have gNodeB modules on the satellite, where AST is integrating with the gNodeB modules on the ground.
There are many details that make AST leading in the game of direct-to-cell communication in comparison to other solutions. They just got 1B in cash from investors to expand and speed up deployment of their network, so calling them vaporware might not age well when in couple weeks they start releasing the testing results.
> any stronger signal is causing unacceptable interference with the current terrestrial networks
I actually never understood that argument. Why would it be harder to tolerate interference from an adjacent frequency base station hundreds of kilometers away than that of one one roof over?
Are Starlink's band pass filters really bad, or do terrestrial networks depend on geometric isolation (via topography or the horizon) to a larger extent than space-based transmission protocols?
> technological advantage AST has in comparison with Starlink Direct-To-Cell
Unverified and unverifiable to date. Unacceptable for an ex-SPAC which nearly got delisted from the exchanges when it dropped to $2 a share a few months back.
>Other thing is difference in AST and Starlink architecture which makes Starlink not easy to properly integrate in the terrestrial networks since they have gNodeB modules on the satellite, where AST is integrating with the gNodeB modules on the ground.
Their bent-pipe architecture is going to have to do a LOT of heavy-lifting to mitigate the impacts of their anti-doppler mechanisms on top of the latency, SNR and jitter. Whole thing hinges on Bluebirds phased-array performance and their ability to handover cells at scale - presuming they've achieved a fraction of what they claim to have achieved using unmodified commercial handsets in real-world environments.
Schadenfreude at SpaceXs very understandable FCC interference issues is a bad look considering ASTS are wholly dependent on SpaceX to put their constellation into LEO!
>There are many details that make AST leading in the game of direct-to-cell communication in comparison to other solutions.
A deSPAC with no major R&D heads of note, headed by an Auteur (Abel Avellan) whose only credence is partnerships with Rakuten/Vodafone leading to board seats.
ASTS have missed every single self-imposed roadmap delivery milestone, have had to hit up their ATM, previously lost 80% of their value from NAV, and are propped up pricewise by a small float and a rabid reddit-style fanbase as a holdover from the SPAC days. They've proven absolutely nothing so far, despite many lofty claims to the contrary, and Rakuten has already hit them up with a multi-million dollar fine for what was effectively non-delivery.
Fact that AST is deSPAC has nothing to do with this. AST has gone out of that phase stellarly.
Second, technological advantages are very verified, by AST doing 20 Mbps download and 5G calls and extremely good spectral efficiency.
Definitely both architectures have pros and cons, but for the fixed-earth cells the bent-pipe is way more optimal then constant switching of the cell position which Starlink has.
ASTS has missed some deadlines, but they are not centering divs, they really do innovation from the first principles and that takes some time. Check TSLA which is 10 years into "we are getting FSD next year out"
Rakuten didn't hit them with the fine, but they exercised a contractual right to get 10 million dollar back if they don't deliver something, but same Rakuten is officially promoting the 2026 as start of the commercial coverage for Japan, if we are taking them as authority.
SpaceX is definitely not the only one on whom they depend for delivery since they use ISRO from India for the first satellite, Falcon9 for the next 8 and New Glen for the rest. And given that they have enough money, they can as well go back to more SpaceX if needed since they have agreement with them.
It is interesting that company without research team has so many patents on this technology and partners with Google, AT&T, Verizon, Vodafone, Rakuten, American Tower and that none of them is seeing how hoax they are. Maybe they will come here and get actually enlightened.
Several things you disagree with or would like to reinterpret. All are perfectly accurate and factual.
> Fact that AST is deSPAC has nothing to do with this. AST has gone out of that phase stellarly.
Look at the work of fiction that is their original DA deck. Every. Single. Milestone. delayed. They went from $40 ATH during SPACmania to $2 last year. Also they've diluted with ATM offerings, which is of huge consequence to those buying in at NAV or higher.
> Definitely both architectures have pros and cons, but for the fixed-earth cells the bent-pipe is way more optimal then constant switching of the cell position which Starlink has.
Yes. One will be supported in NTN 3GPP and one supposedly circumvents the limitation of current 3GPP through undisclosed technological means. Guess which one is the incumbent with a track-record of delivering constellations into LEO, and which one is the startup claiming everything and delivering nothing commercially available or independently verifiable to date?
> Rakuten didn't hit them with the fine, but they exercised a contractual right to get 10 million dollar back if they don't deliver something.
Yes. In common parlance that's referred to as a fine for non-delivery.
>It is interesting that company without research team has so many patents on this technology and partners with Google, AT&T, Verizon, Vodafone, Rakuten, American Tower and that none of them is seeing how hoax they are. Maybe they will come here and get actually enlightened.
Wouldn't be the first time any and all of the above have thrown millions at snake-oil and pipe-dreams. Given what they've actually committed to in terms of cash you can draw your own conclusions.
Abel has had to absolutely tank the share price on multiple occasions - the at-the-market sale in Q4'24 of $400m was particularly telling given not a single one of their strategic partners were willing to step up and bridge them over the bare $440m runway they had to get them through 2025. After the CFO was interpreted as promising no dilution in 2024.
Stock price is a heavy swallow here, especially if someone had a bad timing and not much patience, but stock price is a tool to get funding which AST has successfully done, a year ago with very bad conditions, a week ago with excellent conditions. Not sure what that tells, but to me it tells that at least someone has trusted them with a 1B in cash, and some others with billions in spectrum to achieve their idea which would be transformational.
What is fact is that where Starlink has gotten approval from FCC to test only text messages, AST has gotten approval to test full 5G broadband in Europe, Turkey and USA for now. Not sure how can I interpret it differently then that they have technical advantage and that they might be first to really provide useful commercial service, which they will start providing very soon.
Competition is important. I do find it very impressive what Starlink has achieved so far, but it would make me very nervous if nobody else were even trying.
So T-Mobile is partnering with Starlink to let people send SMS. This is insanely impressive, you could be in the middle of nowhere, and send an emergency text that otherwise would have gone nowhere.
It works indoors and under tree cover if that is what you are asking.
> “Among other results, the satellites have been able to communicate with multiple models of unmodified Samsung, Apple, and Google devices using (T-Mobile’s) PCS G Block spectrum, including in urban and rural areas, indoors and outdoors, and in clear sky and under tree cover”
Given that this uses standards and protocols iPhones largely already support and are licensed for, not supporting it would seem more like active blocking at some point.
As an iPhone user, I really don’t need more instances of Apple telling me what I’m allowed to do at a software level, and on top of that Apple has had no problem allowing network connectivity to networks under all kinds of interesting ownership.
I don’t think it’s as simple as just Elon. These are enormous companies solving large problems with the objective of delivering value at highest possible profit margin to customers.
Why not? It's adding more functionality. Even if Apple used Globalstar, they're a partner of SpaceX and thus still "in bed" with Elon. Even if they didn't use satellite stuff at all, Apple's current CEO donated to Trump's inauguration, along with... you guessed it, Elon.
Elon or SpaceX? It's important to separate the person and their actions and the company. I wouldn't be surprised / hope that long term Musk leaves or is ousted from SpaceX entirely.
The actual reason why the two aren't comparable is that Elon is not just the CEO, but also a significant owner of SpaceX (42% equity; 79% voting control, according to Wikipedia). Tim Cook owns less than 1% of Apple.
This is hardly TDS. Elon made his own 'gestures' then went to an AfD rally to clarify his position with a bullhorn in case some didn't hear the dog whistle.
Being uneasy about using products and services from a political extremist is a rational and normal position.
Calling people that you disagree with deranged or impaired is hardly "leaving personalities out of it". Rhetorical games like that are not helpful or beneficial to the discussion.
"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled"- Mark Twain
The pictures and video I saw of Elon in the news look nothing like the salutes in documentaries, TV shows, and movies. I did see one picture of Kamala making the same gesture as Elon though.
There's a mind-virus infecting people. It reminds me of when the front page of reddit was about Trump pooping his pants which didn't happen, but...
people want to believe what they want to believe.
I don't care what "side" of politics people are on, I hate it when either side doesn't act in good faith.
(The front page of reddit is constantly politics now, it's no longer interesting, so I no longer waste my time there.)
Not sure if the picture was from that video, but I appreciate it. I also have never lived in Germany, but I assume Germans have seen more historical depictions than I have, so thank you for that datapoint.
> I did see one picture of Kamala making the same gesture as Elon though.
A picture lacks context. And if that is the one which I think it is, it is clearly an utterly different gesture due to the context. Misrepresenting that is not acting in good faith.
He often does not look normal.
He gave a nazi salute to the USA flag. He saluted once to the crowd, then turned around and saluted to the flag. Sadly many people have not seen the full video.
Have you seen what he posts on his social media accounts? It is full of fascist, racist, conspiracy content. It is almost certain that he knows how a Nazi salute looks like and that it was two of them.
In case anyone sees this... this is true. I've never actually seen Elon himself post something blatantly racist.
Instead he'll wait till someone else like Marjorie Taylor Greene posts something like "jewish space lasers are responsible for California fires" and he'll retweet "close".
He does this so often, it's like he wants to be technically innocent of wrongdoing, but he's associating with all the bad actors.
Amusing, since the entire defense of Elon at this point is a bad faith attempt to dilute the richest man in the world's continued racist ideas, comments, and actions.
You can argue the gesture was unintentional, but to say it "look nothing like the salutes in documentaries, TV shows, and movies" is just a lie. Nothing like it? What would he had to have to have done differently for you to say it looked similar?
i don't really think that's a fair way to answer my question.
the property "associated to the concept of jew-murder" doesn't automatically make judging a technical company by the alleged beliefs of its operator sensical.
once again, if someone were to state some ground for dislike of gay folks (e.g. calling it a cognitihazard) it would still not make sense to criticize the company they belong to, nor companies that associate with theirs when the subject is an unrelated technical feat.
i'm "likening gays and Nazis" only in the sense that they're both adjectives. i chose the example of homosexuality because
- tim cook is gay, and we're talking about Apple
- it nicely politically parallels criticizing association with SpaceX based on the alleged proclivities of Elon Musk
but the post could just as easily have been about his favorite shirt color, to reduced rhetorical but identical logical effect.
your stance only makes sense if you think "SpaceX is getting into bed with the gays" /isn't/ a ridiculous thing to say, and is acceptable because being gay is good and being a nazi isn't.
What are you even on about. They are not the same. Elon being a weirdo proto-fascist, mid-life-crisis having weirdo has nothing to with someone being born gay. One is a choice the other isn’t. And before all you Elon apologist play the Asperger’s card even people like him with his deficiencies know better.
no offense (well, some offense...), but are you reading a script? enacting an argument you've had mentally with someone else?
you literally just replied to a post saying the the gay / alleged nazi dynamic wasn't critical to the point with... a moral assessment of being homosexual vs. a "proto-fascist, mid-life-crisis having weirdo".
I’m not the person you were replying too but I think I can set the matter straight.
You said: the property "associated to the concept of jew-murder" doesn't automatically make judging a technical company by the alleged beliefs of its operator sensical.
This is where we disagree. The key part of the statement “technical company” isn’t “technical”. It’s “company”.
The reason the mods (cross fingers) haven’t shut this discussion down is because HN isn’t just a tech forum, it’s also a business forum.
From a business perspective, it’s completely fair to criticize the political viewpoint and even national allegiance of another business. And it’s fair to question if Apple is squandering its goodwill by associating with bad actors. Technical competency is irrelevant if people are reluctant to buy your products or others are reluctant to integrate with you due to your political beliefs.
That’s why it’s often recommended that business leaders do not speak outside their area of expertise and if they have to give a political opinion then they should align with the majority and the governments stance (which arguably Musk is doing).
I lost almost all respect for Elon Musk when he started calling a rescue diver "pedo guy". Up until this point, I was enthusiastic about his company's accomplishments in aerospace and electric vehicles.
Now I would love to see him fulfill his dream of being a Martian pioneer - as long as he doesn't return to earth. In my view, he is an embarrassment to the tech community and the United States. His childish and petty behavior has no place in a civil society.
It absolutely does and has been talked about for many years. This doesn’t really change anything unless you lived in a place that didn’t get cell signal.
With do they have to partner up with T-Mobile if the iPhones will directly communicate with Starlink satellites? Wouldn't piggybacking off the Wi-Fi call technology be enough and less friction for customers?
I don't think it would be unreasonable to require customers to have a really cheap mobile plan with no internet if they want to do calls outside of iMessager/WhatsApp/Messenger/etc.
It's up to the network operator to efficiently manage their spectrum in a way that does not interfere with other radio users, and mutually between their own base stations.
If T-Mobile/Starlink manage to do that, you get additional connectivity in remote areas on your existing devices. If they don't, and their own network quality degrades, you can switch networks; if they degrade other networks' quality (actually, not just as a hypothetical), hopefully the FCC will shut them down.
That isn't how antennas work. Cell phones are pretty low-power devices, but a station in space is going to be much much more powerful than cell phones. Any tower with an antenna tuned to this frequency is going to have to dump that power somewhere. This is called "front-end overload" and is something most things should be protected against, but there are probably many devices that don't expect several watts of power being dumped on them from a single direction.
The latest generation of satellites use software-driven phase array beam forming antennas, effectively behaving like it has hundreds or thousands of tiny spot beams. That allows it "talk" on the same frequency to different receivers much closer (geographically) to each other than traditional systems.
Think beam-steering MIMO WiFi where a base station can direct the vast majority of its energy directly toward a client, meaning clients in other directions never see the transmission and so the noise floor is lower and bandwidth higher. Similarly such systems can "see" which direction a transmission comes from and so distinguish multiple clients transmitting simultaneously - much the same way your eyes have no trouble seeing two people waving at you from different directions even if they're twins and dressed identically: the spatial information is sufficient to tell them apart.
To a rough approximation the delta between the theoretical limit and practical limit is computationally driven these days and we've gotten really good at the computation part.
What kind of power supply are you imagining these Starlink cell satellites to have? You'll absolutely not see "several watts of power being dumped" on anyone, even assuming extremely small spot beam sizes.
This is an extremely power limited application. We're talking signals just above the noise floor here.
Yeah ... def won't cause any front-end overload to anyone else's towers... or microwave ptp connections ... or international spectrum agreements ... or raise the noise floor for nearby frequencies. It'll be fine. I'm sure.
Are you suggesting that the satellites should be using Wi-Fi spectrum?
That would not be possible, as neither access points nor clients are licensed to use nearly enough transmission power to bridge the distances required (and if they were, the spectrum would become usable for terrestrial uses).
I use it daily. I live in Silicon Valley, but house is in the shadow of a hill, and we get zero reception. If I’m too far from the WiFi router, I’m off grid. Since last year I’ve been able to send and receive iMessage texts when out in the backyard or walking around the property.
In all seriousness, have you considered adding an outdoor access point? They reach quite far as you usually have Line of Sight. Trying to get a centrally placed indoor AP to penetrate inner and outer walls is guaranteed to give reception issues.
Oh yea that's the Silicon Valley I remember from my time there. I lived in Mountain View and at&t 768kbit DSL was the only available internet (Comcast dropped connection so often I had to cancel). Many years ago but still fascinating how bad it was in what one would consider the centre of the internet. Good times...
That means absolutely nothing, unfortunately. I usually see that icon when I'm on the Subway, and I'd be deeply impressed if Globalstar could actually transmit through a few meters of water and a couple more of rock.
The only thing this icon does seem to respect is general geolocation (i.e. I haven't seen it in unsupported countries). You'll only know if you have satellite connectivity if you actually try using it.
The SOS icon means you're off your network, but you can still make emergency 911 calls. The phone will connect to whatever network is available (if any) to make the call. By law (in the U.S.), the other networks have to carry the call free of charge.
I have an iPhone X that's not signed up with any network, and isn't capable of satellite communications, but still displays the SOS icon because it can make 911 calls.
I'm talking about the SOS + satellite icons appearing together. In my experience, that only appears if there is no other network available, which is the case in most subway tunnels in NYC.
Garmin's smartwatch line and SOS communicators now have a massive target on their back. Now that the satellite availability issues are going to be solved, they just need to push battery life further for the watches and they'll be golden.
There will be no point other than simplicity / physical buttons to get a Garmin watch over an Apple watch if you have an iPhone pretty soon.
Garmin w/ eink screen, not great app, bad Apple compatibility = $300, latest AW series 10 = $380
Garmin still has training readiness, training status, training plans, suggested event-based workouts and much longer battery life which makes them work better for endurance (hobby) athletes.
On the other hand, Garmin UX is horrible and the watch faces are utterly ugly
(saying as former Apple Watch owner and now Garmin FR 965)
Popularity of Garmins go way beyond what you try for some reason reduce it to.
These are serious sport and adventure watches, apple doesnt really have a comparable product for many folks, ie for me or my wife (who has apple+garmin mix). I personally also prefer wearing round watches than blocky mini phone. Latest garmins, any garmins, with oled displays look much cooler.
Definitely not everywhere. Starlink cares a lot about national borders, neutralizing the one major advantage it has over most other internet access technologies. This just begs me to say "you had one job".
Well, Starlink has been known to provide roaming services in countries they haven't reached a full agreement with yet, with the exception of the ones who legitimately might have the power to shoot down SpaceX satellites if they got angry enough (India, China, Russia).
The number of Starlink satellites and the rapidity of their replenishment vastly outnumbers the number of ASAT interceptors, and launchers, that any nation could produce.
Shooting-down Starlink satellites is economically infeasible, never mind the fratricide it would cause to the aggressor's own LEO assets.
True, but it would still be a very expensive inconvenience for SpaceX, I think enough that it isn't worth serving roaming users there and pissing off the countries.
Starlink disregards national borders when the US government gives them the greenlight for that, not otherwise. That's why it works in Iran. SpaceX / Starlink are an American company with personnel and property on the ground, they cannot simply defy their host government and do whatever they want, causing diplomatic incidents where they please. That's not realistic.
Yeah the list of governments where they defy the local government is mostly VERY isolated (politically) countries. They’re certainly not in the business of simply providing access everywhere based on principles.
I also think their starlink system still needs localized ground base stations -- their network isn't at the point they can do satellite<->satellite communication.
It does have satellite<->satellite communication, but the latency is way worse if your traffic has to flow like that, so ideally they're building as many ground stations as they can all over the globe. But laser service is always how cruise ships in the middle of the pacific will get full starlink internet.
If you're resident in a country where StarLink is legal (like Mozambique), you can procure the service and then roam in a country where it's illegal like South Africa. I don't think that will ever change.
StarLink's definition of "resident" and "roaming" might change a little bit over time.
StarLink has been quite good in surrounding the countries where they stand to make a lot of money (like South Africa) with "friendly" countries. So, due to roaming, South Africa is losing out on a lot of tax revenue (VAT) and other economic benefits. Speculation is that they will give in.
I remember hearing that this used to be the case, but this is a pretty blatant violation of international law and regulations, and I think by now roaming is also technically disabled in countries that didn't grant them a license.
Their own support site is a bit ambiguous:
> If your new location is not in an authorized territory (marked "Available" or "Waitlist" on the Starlink map), your service may be immediately suspended.
I have no first hand knowledge, but there are some news articles and forum posts on https://www.mybroadband.co.za/ that will give you an indication of how StarLink is handling it.
Surely international law can't force StarLink to detect where their terminals are. Or force StarLink to block their signals from leaking into neighbouring countries.
They won't market or distribute their terminals in countries where it is illegal.
So it's up to customs to seize terminals when they cross the borders or communications regulators to seize terminals after they came in.
At this stage, I think StarLink is clamping down on roaming because they don't want to jeopardize their negotiations with the SA government.
Violating international treaties and national law of almost all countries and potentially getting their assets seized, or worst case serving as a casus belli (economic or kinetic) in case the US does not enforce claims of other nations against them?
It seems right now, assuming you're in the test (is anyone that is not working for Apple?), an emergency button (no voice, no text, no nothing, other than the fact that you pressed the button and a location, not sure how accurate) (I guess maybe it's as featured as the Google feature)
MAYBE in the future text messaging service. Text only.
Note: Text messaging currently actually works on some Samsung phones on T-mobile, if you request to join the beta.
> Latest iPhone update poised to work with upcoming service
Um well yeah the whole idea of starlink direct to cell is that it works with unmodified mobile phones so this isn't really a suprise.
What surprises me more is that apple is even working with starlink considering they have a competing service together with globalstar. Which is kinda their moat since all attempts on the Android side have failed (qualcomm had a deal with iridium and killed it within the year before it even launched, and bullitt (CAT/Motorola) which had a deal with Inmarsat went bankrupt. The sat part was spun off but without ongoing hardware releases this will be a dead end.
Oh I see, I missed that, probably didn't make the news here as it's only in the US (so far at least). Sorry. Of course Apple's feature started out US-only too so I hope Google will expand their reach too.
> What surprises me more is that apple is even working with starlink considering they have a competing service together with globalstar
Apple hates being dependent on one company. They always use competing suppliers in their chain because it gives them more leverage. SpaceX vs Globalstar is a good strategy if one or the other has a problem or wants to negotiate something crazy.
In the past they’ve even sourced iPhone processors from both TSMC and Samsung (albeit mixed results).
I am pretty sure Apple could buy Globalstar without even noticing the cash, and Globalstar might be dead if it wasn’t for Apple (Apple owns 20% of Globalstar).
I don’t think Apple needs the financial leverage, I think they don’t want to put all their bets on a lame horse.
Globalstar fulfills the most crucial product requirement: emergency contact
I think people who don't go outside much underestimate how much this is used.
Almost every week a hiker or tourist or someone is rescued in the wilds of California or Idaho or Nevada thanks to an iPhone SOS signal. You don't see it in the news much because it happens so often that it's not really news anymore.
A friend recently joked that Apple is starving the coyotes of a regular food source.
i get instant alerts from starlink if i even smell anything that they think looks like torrent. so many false positives with wireguard and almost as useful of customer support as google.
True but terrestrial networks are offering generic service directly to consumers. Apple's deal with globalstar is fully part of apple's offer. I don't think they even mention globalstar.
It's also a USP for Apple in the mobile market right now.
Globalstar has substantially better coverage, but their constellation is in a much higher orbit. Starlink will be useful for actual internet access and lower cost emergency response messaging cost, but GS is going to be an important backup.
I've always assumed that there would be at least some modifications required on the phone firmware side.
5G (at least the non-NTN ,non-IoT variants) is just too chatty to support cell sizes that big, is my suspicion. If you can get the phones to go into a special "texting only" mode (whether that's over IP using IMS, which also seems somewhat chatty, or something lower level and more efficient), that would probably help a lot, and I assume this is what Apple is doing in this firmware update.
Yeah I always wondered about that too. How do you stop it from sending too much and cluttering the entire area (media access control is another issue because the satellite will 'see' a much wider area than the phone).
I imagine though that Starlink DTC will only be visible to phones in really remote areas, as it uses the same frequenties as terrestrial network it will be easily overwhelmed by traffic from nearby towers.
I'd expect them to use at least some amount of exclusive spectrum for this service, or there would be issues in fringe areas in at least the uplink (the satellite couldn't selectively tune out phones talking to terrestrial towers if they are using the same frequencies that phone-to-satellite comms are using).
It already works. The phones that are being tested with T-Mobile don't have any special hardware for satellite links.
As far as I'm aware, the only changes are in software, so that the phone doesn't try to switch to satellite "towers" unless it really has no other option.
Not pointless, that's the best use of Starlink with phones. Base station backhaul gets the benefits of not having to run fiber + space for a bigger antenna w/ better signal to noise ratio
SNR is not a function of antenna size. The size is dictated by the wavelength, not how desperate you are to receive a signal.
Directionality does make an antenna larger as it usually involves reflectors and directors, the size and placement of which is also a fraction of the wavelength, but if they are actually able to do direct to phone with decent reception and arbitrary coverage, then that beats having to set up base stations to cover a small circle even if you get 10-15 dB better SNR.
This might give you LTE in, say, all of the Australian outback, all of Alaska, along the Andes mountain range, etc.
The deployment cost is even lower when you don’t need to put a tower on the ground, which is the point of this. They can cover the entire U.S. to eliminate coverage gaps using the starlink satellites.
For remote areas that might still be tens to hundreds of kilometers of poles and fiber just to add coverage to one remote area. Then you move on to the next.
No one wants to do that across all of Alaska or the Australian outback.
In the sense "you can buy fiber cheaply by the ton", not. But in the sense "laying down fiber in the mountains of Papua-New Guinea, or in the Canadian Arctic, or a simmering warzone full of militias", that is indeed a major bottleneck.
It's absolutely the bottleneck in some remote areas, and satellite backhaul for terrestrial mobile networks has been a thing before Starlink, as far as I know.
Not on LTE protocols. Not using a COTS 4G/5G Phone. Satellite phones aren't in the context of this discussion.
You can just about get SMS emergency coverage with the latest generation of modems and aerials designed for the purpose. NTN standards are a long way off being set.
NTN phones have been available since the early 2010s, some even using geostationary satellites (which are 100 times farther away).
If you mean 5G NTN, I believe the newer Pixel models already use that already, and I've been using it using a dedicated device since Summer 2023. They actually use at least some of the same satellites of the 2010s voice service, which I believe is no longer being offered.
I'm talking specifically the ongoing 3GPP work from Rel-16 to Rel-19, and the proposed work by Qualcomm and Thales to validate the use-cases for formalisation of the standard.
Rel-18, the initial release for 5G-Advanced, only brought in the support for the new frequency bands for NTN above 10 GHz - the Ka band where most of our interest lies for large-scale large-bandwidth provisionment - in June of last year for equipment manufacturers.
You're not wrong in saying that most of what we hope to be achieved with NTN is, to be fair, NTN-NR - or 5G NTN - as a lot of it depends on NR technologies like MIMO and beamforming in certain spectrums.
Skylo did the first rollout of emergency SMS in Europe as per the 3GPP Release 17 specifications for Direct-to-Handset (D2H) connectivity in Q4 of last year. Note that Rel 17 designated only two usable frequency bands in Release 17 for 5G NTN use in the 5G FR1 range
> Skylo did the first rollout of emergency SMS in Europe as per the 3GPP Release 17 specifications for Direct-to-Handset (D2H) connectivity in Q4 of last year.
I've been already using that exact service in Summer 2023 in both the US and Europe (Bullit, via Sklyo and using Echostar/Terrestar satellites, I believe). It's possible that that was using pre-release specifications, though.
Phone -> Starlink Sat for the initial connection. That then pings to a starlink groundstation, then it gets routed over their fiber to T-Mobile over the internet (its all just data going over fiber anyway).
Why would that make a difference? You're not connecting to tmobile's network directly, you're connecting to starlinks, they're just routing traffic as part of their deal. It's effectively a glorified proxy service.
And sats for mobile aren't really a big thing. Qualcomm worked on it and killed it, Samsung did for a while and killed it, Bullitt had it and it was a fringe thing before they collapsed. Only Apple really stood by it. And it's really only their moat, they're still not selling subscriptions.
Starlink direct to cell is only available on a fraction of sats, even those launched now. They won't be able to launch a full direct to cell fleet until starship comes online due to the added size and weight of the sats.
As an android user I still don't have any replacement for my Garmin inreach which is really a pain because Garmin put the prices up considerably. I was hoping to be able to replace it by now. Also, Bullitt's service is kinda a no go for emergencies because it uses a geostationary network so it won't work from valleys with mountains to the south (in the Northern hemisphere that is). Starlink, globalstar (apple) and Iridium (qualcomm, until they killed the deal) don't have this issue being low earth orbit.
I guess the emergency service isn't the big selling point everyone thought it was and the capacity isn't there yet for much more than text messaging yet.
I also cannot wait for Apple to improve the product because it should force Garmin to actually charge reasonable prices for their service. There is a yearly fee just to keep the subscription "active" and then you pay for service on a rolling month basis. The extortionate per-message fees are reminiscent of early SMS days in the States.
The product and service itself is pretty reliable though. I've taken my Inreach in all sorts of places and had only rare issues with it.
> There is a yearly fee just to keep the subscription "active" and then you pay for service on a rolling month basis.
This is changing soon. They will now charge a keepalive fee per month. Previously you could pay 40 per year and just activate it for the months you needed it (the freedom plans). Those are gone unfortunately. For an irregular user it now goes from 40 to 120$ per year to keep it active.
And yeah I wish there was a bit more competition here. Right now inreach is still the best for me even compared to PLBs though. Because inreach can do 10-minute breadcrumbs. So even when you have a bad fall the homefront can see where you were last.
A PLB requires the user to be conscious to turn it on and unfold the antenna. And Apple's solution requires aiming at the satellite.
For backcountry I would love to have another option (and able to stream video and games lol). But I wouldn't drop the garmin for life saving reasons. I * might * if my garmin watch was able to use the garmin sos. Phone + very long lasting / hard to break watch might be enough for 90% of my nights out for me.
The support is standards based and while they are all wetting their feet with a preferred partner, with minimal messaging support focused on emergency use cases, there is enough traction to flush out major use cases across all carriers, with out of the box enablement at the mobile platform layer integrated on supported newer devices with the requisite radio HW.
Satellite limited to one country is useless for all of us living in the free world.
AI on a phone is... well let's be honest Apple "Intelligence" is an utter gimmick.
Sadly there's been zero investment it seems in better user interfaces, settings screens have become a joke, cameras seem to have stagnated
Doesn't it use regular cellular frequencies? You might be able to "disable this" by using manual network selection, but if they use the same mcc mnc as tmobile (their partner), it'll be impossible to distinguish.
So by all means, if you rather not be able to text someone that you're in the middle of nowhere in danger with otherwise no signal, I don't see why you would disable that. Like its literally for SOS use.
Probably (I've read that there will be a switch in the carrier settings for T-Mobile USA), but also why would you want to?
In the end, the Starlink satellites will be just another set of cell towers, just with a slightly unusual velocity and altitude. You already can't e.g. disable using T-Mobile base stations leased by a particular land or infrastructure owner.
Nothing, as long as you're fine funding the exploits of a ketamine fueled edgelord who is throwing his resources behind far-right parties in multiple countries.
They could just not buy those services. That is a completely viable way forward.
It's shockingly common to have to explain to Americans like yourself, that a democratic world exists beyond your borders. We even have different democracies electing different leaders.
Anything with Musk's name attached to it is also in danger of getting hit with bans and sanctions if Musk and the current US government keep operating as they've done since the inauguration, so I'd also see that as a risk with regard to availability of those services outside the US. Apple is pretty good at keeping their products out of political crossfire but Musk seems to pretty much be seeking trouble these days.
If you're accesing, say, an Iranian site, SpaceX will obviously see that and can record it. If you're doing a VoIP call or sending a text, I'm much less sure they'd see where it's going - but wouldn't think it's out of the question.
First, that's rarely true, plenty of people use DNS, not DoH (and DoH just means Clodflare or whoever gets to know your traffic too). But even when they are, this is mostly irrelevant: your network provider knows which IPs you're talking to, otherwise they couldn't route your packets, obviously. It's generally quite trivial to do a reverse DNS search and figure out which hostname corresponds to the IP you're talking to.
There is no similarity whatsoever between Bitcoin and a bank. Mattresses to keep your money under are more similar to traditional banks than Bitcoin is.
You proposed using bitcoin to replace your need for a bank. And nothing in the bitcoin world can do that. Bitcoin can't securely store your money with a guarantee that they won't be lost or significantly reduced in value beyond inflation, bitcoin can't give you a loan, bitcoin can barely help you securely transact.
It's someone else that proposed bitcoin. The mention of open source banking was a completely different idea, I think? I'm not sure why they put their comment beneath the bitcoin comment.
Satellite access is not a requirement though for phones. So one could just take a moral stand and not give money to Musk.
It's not like satellite access is some major feature people are clamoring for or that competitors are using to outsell Apple. It's a niche use case, and Apple is basically using its power to advertise for Starlink much more than depending on them.
Sadly it isn't a fallacy at all, academic degrowthers in Europe (yes, degrowth can be studied at university in Europe!) have proposed de-incentivising the use of washing machines: https://x.com/ziontree/status/1837034922105516391
People can also chose not to give money to a fascist trying to bring other fascists to power. As an American company, Apple should see that they have a moral duty to not pump money into the fascist.
That's a different matter. Breaking the law (especially tax law, where the government can easily just take what it wants) is different from simply not going into business with someone.
I'm not, and I don't think that. I just know that, a, the entire cell phone market has existed and been massive for decades now without satellite phones; and that, b, SpaceX has very very little satellite-LTE connectivity, and is not adding it very quickly.
Musk is showing more and more that he is a fascist willing and able to invest in other fascists to help bring them to power. I would see preventing that as much more important than innovation.
Honestly, if the world isn't looking pretty dark to you right now, I think you're the one who needs to go outside a little bit more. Especially since this drift into right wing extremism can still be stopped, both in the USA and in Europe, but only for a few more years.
I remember during communism, how The Party was loudly condemning anything coming from the “decadent capitalism”. Meanwhile, the youth was busy wearing bluejeans and listening to rock and roll.
People are always able to recognize those providing value versus the ideologues…
Except here we’re talking about data connections beamed from outer space to our phones anywhere on Earth by a private enterprise, not some gigantic bureaucracy starving its citizens to build a bigger monument to its ideology in a dick-measuring contest with another State.
It's a shame this is being downvoted. It is not a trivial or "just politics" issue. Apple is aligning itself with entities that undermine human rights, democracy, and equality.
Economic choices reflect values, and choosing not to support businesses tied to oppressive systems is a means of accountability, not mere political disagreement.
How is that surprising? Apple had no problems aligning itself with the previous administration either, even though it supported and encouraged a genocide for almost half of its existence, almost unconditionally.
I mean I agree that we should also criticize corporations that aligned with the previous administration too, but it's curious how these types of comments only pop up on threads like these instead. I guess for a lot of Americans, owning twitter, being a complete right wing moron on twitter, and supporting the other side is more despicable than providing almost every bomb and every bullet that led to a genocide in Gaza. As long as they have "care about democracy" and have the right tone, I guess ?
It's not just Apple, it's all of silicon valley kissing the new administrations ring. These companies are worth billions. They don't have to do it. It's disgusting to see greed trumping values.
Those companies represent the collective effort of thousands of talented people creating novel products. I'm happy to support the engineers. I'd barely be online here without Starlink!
Not everyone cares about the political drama associated with companies that some dude has an ownership stake in.
