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Negotiations get heated. It's the only way to reach an honest agreement. Better to get those feelings out.

Trump was elected on negotiating a peace, and that's going to piss off Zelensky. Zelensky became entitled to a blank check with no strings attached. Now the terms have changed.

There are some people who expect dialog to proceed like an HR meeting, and those that find relief in direct and sometimes heated language.

To me the meeting felt like a tremendous relief. A resolution will develop, finally.




Out of curiosity, what are the other similar public meetings/negotiations you’re aware of that were conducted in a similar way?

Or generally, since you say this did not deviate from your expectations, what are the past events that influenced your baseline expectation for conduct on the geopolitical stage?


> Out of curiosity, what are the other similar public meetings/negotiations you’re aware of that were conducted in a similar way?

There have been a ton of them, at least according to historical accounts. But none in front of reporters like this.


Civility is overrated. Maybe you felt like tired rhetoric from prior admin about Israel or Putin was more effective but I sure don't. People are awfully afraid to rock the boat in American political discourse. It's probably been too polite as a cover for a lot of ugly policy on both the left and right.


it sounds like you're preferring status quo. I'm saying that status quo has failed.


Could you explain further? Specifically in the context of this discussion/today’s meeting and conduct?


I really couldn't have been any clearer, so I don't know what to tell you.


what? you don't have negotiations in public at a press conference. what is trump negotiating here? terms that Ukraine won't accept? what resolution will come out of this outside of hardening Ukrainian resolve, bolstering Zelensky and getting Europe to fund the war?

Trump, the master negotiator /s

A shameful, tactless and pre-planned display. it's easy to blame trump and vance but the true losers here are the American people. American soft power is critical to America's economic power.


What can europe fund the war with? Even if they can come up with the gold, who are they going to buy the weapons from?


Gold? It’s not the 19th century anymore and if you look at list of arms manufacturers you’ll find a lot of familiar names who take euros:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_armament_manufa...


the only way to get euros is with gold. The grain & minerals aren't being produced because he killed off his labor force (young men, and the old ones)


You asked what Europe can fund the war with. The euro zone has a $20 trillion dollar GDP and extensive domestic manufacturing so it’s not clear why you think they need gold to use their own tax revenue.


Ukraine isn’t Europe. Ukraine doesn’t have euros , gold, grain or minerals (out of the ground). And the men have been killed , so they don’t have any way to get that to pay for the weapons


You asked “What can europe fund the war with?” Did you mean to write “Ukraine” instead of “europe”? Otherwise it seems weird to say that the EU can’t take euros, give them to manufacturers in the EU, and disagree the weapons to Ukraine.


Both.


I actually agree that it was a planned dressing down for optics sakes but the attempt is to try to get Zelenskyy out of the way for Trump / Putin direct deal to settle Ukraine matter and the success of this strategy will depend on whether the MAGA media hype will drown out the soft power enjoyers in terms of messaging.


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And days after the election he started threatening potential military force to acquire Greenland and Panama, and economic force to annex Canada.

The reasons he was elected are irrelevant, only his actions since being elected and taking power are.

Since then, Trump has proposed ethnic cleansing and gentrification of Ghaza, and proposed launching attacks into Mexico (putatively to take out cartel members). Anyone who thinks that Trump or his administration are looking for peace or peaceful solutions is clearly delusional.


He’s commanded more peace than every president since Herbert Hoover


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You keep saying peace, but if Ukraine stops fighting without security guarantees from countries like the US they get murdered, raped and their children abducted by Russia. How do we know? The war started in 2014, not 2022.

That's the truth that Trump won't acknowledge and common us opinions don't have the understanding of. It's inconvenient and annoying. The only person who can stop this war and bring peace is Putin. Trump could try forcing him, but it's easier just to sacrifice the entire country of Ukraine?!


> The war started in 2014

Exactly! This is the key. Why do you think Trump was the first US president that didn’t see Putin mount an offensive during his term? Trump armed Ukraine to the teeth during his first term, while being sure not to escalate with Putin. He carried a big stick but also didn’t provoke. Ukraine in NATO is unacceptable for Putin. Fact of life. US wouldn’t want Chinese military defenses in Mexico. Biden admin and Europe seem obsessed with this, but Ukraine in NATO ain’t gonna happen without risking a hot war with A FUCKING NUCLEAR POWER. We either end this now or at the very least drive Russia further into China’s arms or provoke a real WW with millions dead. This isn’t just good vs evil. Reality sucks sometimes, but you gotta deal with it. Trump admin is completely ready and willing to provide arms and aid to Ukraine, just as they did in first term. But we’re sick and tired of seeing endless aid further provoking a nuclear power with absolutely nobody envisioning an end other than “we beat Putin”. All the while we deplete our munitions, supplies, money, and have Russia-China rise.


Except there have been a number of agreements with Russia over the last 20 years, and they have kept breaking them. The "peace" now will most likely just be a distraction so Russia can restart their efforts in ten years. It's not really a meaningful peace. This is what Zelensky tried to explain to Trump and Vance when they kept interrupting him.


It's best to read HN in reverse order to get true diversity of thought.

Also recommend custom stylesheet to unhide the grey-text posts.


Agree with you, too much focus on optics over getting things done.

Trump doesn’t seem to care if people are unhappy or uncomfortable, it’s like he has his list of things he said he’d do and he’s sticking to it.


Consider the space of possible paths towards peace in UA that the current administration can choose from. Do you believe the paths with the highest likelihood of success for reaching a mutual peace agreement involve making one of the sides unhappy, uncomfortable, angry, or by publicly berating them?

It is true that he doesn’t care if people are unhappy or uncomfortable, it’s true he doesn’t care about optics, it is true that he has a set of things he wants to get done, and it’s true the first two points influence his approach to achieving the latter. However the question - the only question that matters - still remains: is this approach the most effective course of action to choose? Maybe it’s not reasonable to assert with complete confidence that it isn’t, but it is certainly unreasonable to assert that it is.




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