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Oh, it’s possible in Germany. What problems do you have in Poland?



> Oh, it’s possible in Germany

Of course.

How do I fire an employee? That's right, I don't. Otherwise sure it's possible.


> How do I fire an employee? That's right, I don't.

It's easy to fire employees in Germany (especially in small shops), e.g. when they steal, are always late, are badmouthing colleagues, are talking about company internals, are insolent to customers, deliver bad work, and on and on.

You simply have to follow a defined process (basically at least one written warning for the same thing before firing).

What you can't do is having a Musk style temper tantrum and fire someone at will because you feel like that.

Source: I had to fire multiple people in Germany.


> What you can't do is having a Musk style temper tantrum and fire someone at will because you feel like that.

This is kind of double-sided coin. Like, people are feeling protected and have a sense of security and that's what defines Europe. On the other hand, businesses hands are tied and they cannot scale dynamically as in the US.

> follow a defined process

And that's the main problem in the EU. There's a process for everything and sometimes it's a burden and limits the abilities to change things.


> What you can't do is having a Musk style temper tantrum and fire someone at will because you feel like that.

What about if you just don't feel they are a good fit anymore, even if you can't show why based purely on numbers.

Is any amount of advance notice sufficient to allow that?


The problem with “even if you can’t show why” is that it often means wrong gender, race, religion, political affiliation, drinking club, etc. A better question would be whether you could articulate what change you’re looking for and show that this standard was clearly communicated and applied to the entire team.


Oh, you can. You just need to provide a valid reason, that's all.

Firing someone because they are stealing from the company, harassing a coworker, consistently underperforming, or because you're shutting down a business unit? Easy!

Firing someone because it's a Tuesday, or because they got pregnant? Sorry, can't do that.


Collecting data in order to come up with a valid reason is prohibited. Like, impossible to fire a programmer if he only does a bare minimum and simply is not productive.


Unless you have a valid suspicion. However, you have to tell the employee he is under observation.


If you have a reason, just terminate the contract? That's how it works in pretty much all of the EU.


It’s not so easy in Germany when the company has 10+ employees. You need a process consisting of warnings, giving time to correct the behaviour and what not. There are cases where people who have been terminated for sexual misconduct or stealing have been ordered by the court to return to work.


Sure it is. I suspect the reason that you didn't provide any details from those cases is that the judgements wouldn't be surprising if you did.

If you really want to be able to get rid of people willy-nilly in Germany, use subcontractors and 'rent' the labour you need.


You don't like worker rights. You should have written that. That is not bureaucracy.


always amusing when people realize that workers have and deserve rights in other parts of the world.


Social security is an incredibly good thing. It defines Europe.

There's a price for it and that's what we're discussing here.


Why not? How many fo you have?




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