> Some people think it's perfectly normal to stretch the truth on a resume, and to lie in an interview.
So marketing works in the company's favor, and not the candidates? Its a tough pill to swallow, but bending the truth and lying seems to be the way folks get jobs now.
Perhaps not lying... But I've thought about the 1pt font white on white mega-tech-list attached to Workday resumes to get past THEIR ai-slop filters. And even had my SO get insta-rejected when whatever AI term wasn't explicitly there.
As a candidate, the market is horrific. Ghost jobs, fake jobs that gather market intelligence, scam jobs, blatantly lying candidates, AI blusters, and more. I can look at the usual places, or even HN. I've even applied to my share of HN jobs without so much as a 'no' as response.
It puts us who actually want to be honest at a pretty severe disadvantage.
Lying isn't marketing. If you lie in marketing, people can sue you.
It is one thing to frame your experiences in ways that are relevant to what the job is looking for: it is not only unethical to fabricate experiences, it is counter-productive.
I will be checking references, and if their reports of the role you played on a project don't match yours I will not be hiring you. If you don't have references who can speak to the work you did, I also won't be hiring you. All you have done is waste my time and yours.
The sheer number of applications from auto-submit-to-every-job application processes have completely broken the system. There is simply no way for every recruiter to consider ever candidate, which is what they are now being asked to do. I know that is frustrating, and I am sorry you are in that place, but lying will not help.
We will eventually figure out how to defeat these candidate-spam bots. In the meantime the only hiring pipelines that are still functional are human-to-human individual networking.
That's all fun and games until a single company puts the top 3 or 5 candidates pitted against each other to see who waits the longest without a rejection and takes the lowest offer...
I heard this from friends, and despite being very comfortable where I am, I started interviewing cynically with no intention to take any job. I can confirm this is very much true and widespread. Hiring is at its worst ever.
Whenever supply and demand gets fixed, we'll see these behaviors go away.
It’s not at its worst ever. But many tech folks are coming off a period when they could waltz off one job into another in a week. That is not the norm for professional jobs. After dot-bomb the norm was lots of people left the industry forever and would you like does with that was not uncommon for many.
Completely agree with the distinction you're making: framing is fine, fabrication is a deal-breaker. It's frustrating how often people conflate "putting your best foot forward" with just making stuff up, especially when they underestimate how easily it can fall apart during reference checks or follow-ups.
> Lying isn't marketing. If you lie in marketing, people can sue you.
That is also fungible as well. Some lies just aren't catchable, like experience with skills that you teach yourself quickly, or go through a quick online course. Not saying I should, but "fake it till ya make it" is a definite thing.
> If you don't have references who can speak to the work you did, I also won't be hiring you.
There's also a reason I'm leaving the role, and usually you don't want people near your position to know youre looking.
And also, demanding references is the old AI slop - you're only going to give glowing references. Nobody gives bad references. And the worst case is you have a friend answer, or you buy one of those reference services (yes, theres a service for that).
> know that is frustrating, and I am sorry you are in that place, but lying will not help.
I think you're missing the point of the type of 'lying' I was referring to. Workday uses an absolute terrible AI, that uses keyword search. With my resume, the human readable text is accurate and me, but to this ai-slop scanning woukd scan 1pt listicle of every keyword.
Its not lying, but it is. Play stupid AI bullshit games, get gamified AI slop solutions. And I hate it. But even having a discussion with someone would be a start.
Well, everyone tells their interpretation of the facts in a way that puts them in the best light.
For example, in 2003, I was fresh out of college and the job market was slow. I applied at a retail store so I could have some beer money. I was honest that I was looking for a job in tech and that I wasn't going to stay forever. Then I said I'd probably be there for 3-4 months.
I was there for 2 weeks, and I don't list the job on my resume.
Was I telling the truth when I said 3-4 months? I certainly gave them the longer end of the estimate in my head.
Was I telling the truth when I left the retail job off of my resume?
Leaving short-duration jobs off is common practice. The only way it might be "lying" is if you happened to, I dunno, have joined SVB just in time to commit a bunch of fraud, and then hoped no one googles your name. And even then, if it was three weeks, when your conviction comes up in the google search no one is going to think you lied leaving it off.
Similarly, it is typical that people will have a polite fiction for "why did you leave your last role?" that hints in the direction of the real reason without saying anything the company wouldn't want to be said publicly. That question is a test of your discretion as much as it is making sure the same reason doesn't apply to the new company.
However, saying you have a degree you don't, worked on a project you didn't, implemented something you didn't, led a project you only participated in, or used a technology you didn't: those are lies. Even if you get away with it, you are setting yourself up for a role you are unqualified to have. If you get caught, you will be correctly fired.
So marketing works in the company's favor, and not the candidates? Its a tough pill to swallow, but bending the truth and lying seems to be the way folks get jobs now.
Perhaps not lying... But I've thought about the 1pt font white on white mega-tech-list attached to Workday resumes to get past THEIR ai-slop filters. And even had my SO get insta-rejected when whatever AI term wasn't explicitly there.
As a candidate, the market is horrific. Ghost jobs, fake jobs that gather market intelligence, scam jobs, blatantly lying candidates, AI blusters, and more. I can look at the usual places, or even HN. I've even applied to my share of HN jobs without so much as a 'no' as response.
It puts us who actually want to be honest at a pretty severe disadvantage.