I said ethnic cleansing, not genocide. Although genocide is what has been happening for the past 2 years in Gaza as described by even Holocaust scholars.
Your argument is a typical claim of racists and zionist colonialists.
1st: you claimed Israel was carrying out ethnic cleansing since 1948. You are now trying to mix words, but when you do ethnic cleaning, you carry out genocide. You were caught in your dog whistle and then tried to get out of it with semantics.
2nd: “Zionist colonialists” is what you call the people that want to have their home in the tiny piece of desert where they where expelled from. By contrast you don’t seem to have any qualms about the Arab colonialists that took all the Middle East and north of Africa. In fact, you support they should even get to keep the tiny piece of desert that belongs to the Jew people. Your problem clearly has to lie in the ethnicity of the people doing the so called colonialism (you even go as far as calling colonialism to people taking hold of their homeland).
While the Nakba was not a genocide per se, it is now one since Oct 2023, the trajectory was similar in Algeria which also culminated in a genocide, that was my main point
"the Arab colonialists that took all the Middle East and north of Africa.": that sentence is misleading. Arabs conquered the other kingdoms, just like the Romands or Greeks did. In no way did they establish an ethnostate.
While there is some desert in Palestine in the south, the north sees heavy rainfall rainfall in upper gallilee of over a metre per year.
Why does it belong to the "Jew people"? On what basis? If its a religious argument then that is not a valid basis for expelling the native Palestinians.
If its based on ancestry, there is little basis for that either. Jewish people like myself cannot claim that all there ancestors were from Palestine. In fact it is probably that Palestinians can claim more descendance from the Jewish people than people who identify as Jewish (excluding existing Palestinian Jews). Zionist colonialists where like myself, European jews, with mostly European ancestry. They were not reclaiming their land, they replicated the European white supremacy ideology in order to "transfer", as they said, the native population that they saw as inferior.
Therefore your argument is very similar to white supremacists who justify their twisted ideology with a very superficial and wrong view of history.
No, your main point was "IDF who have been ethnically cleansing and murdering Palestinians since 1948". When called for with hard data that shows how preposterous that claim is, you altered it to an equality preposterous claim of some ongoing genocide.
Also, the only ethno state in this conflict is Palestine, where they persecuted or even eliminated every single Christian and Jew.
Israel, on the contrary, has a Muslim community that even has elected representatives in the Knesset.
Whether the population increases or not is irrelevant.
"Also, the only ethno state in this conflict is Palestine, where they persecuted or even eliminated every single Christian and Jew."
This is a blatant lie. Christians, jews and muslims were coexisting peacefully before Israel was created. Israel is murdering Christians in Gaza and the west bank and discriminating against them.
Palestinian community in Israel is also discriminated against with laws that give Jews preferential treatment. They also face systemic racism. This is part of an apartheid system as documented here https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra...
Their representation in the Knesset is tokenistic at best. As they are always a minority (since rest of Palestinians have no rights in the west bank and the ones in gaza are not even considered humans by Israel), they can never have any meaningful opposition to the fascist policies of the extreme settlers.
I see that you are also denying the fact that there is a genocide, reminds me of the neo nazis that were telling me that the Holocaust didn't happen, even though my own grandmother went through it.
"Seems to me you are really hard trying to ignore reality that the very next day after Israel was granted independence by the British, all the surrounding Arab nations tried to destroy Israel"
This has been debunked many times by Jewish Israeli authors like Illan Pappe and Benny Morris. Arab nations intervened 6 months after the start of the zionist ethnic cleansing campaign.
Seems like you are fully into the zio nazi alternate reality, no point in arguing and anyway you don't cite any sources for your claims.
"The civil war in Mandatory Palestine became a war between separate states with the declaration of the establishment of the State of Israel on 14 May 1948, a few hours before the termination of the British Mandate of Palestine at midnight. The following morning, the regular armies of neighbouring Arab states – Egypt, Transjordan and Syria – invaded territories of the former Palestinian mandate allocated for a future Arab state according to the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine."
"On December 31, 1947, having recruited a few thousand volunteers, Abd al-Qadir al-Husayni organized the blockade of the 100,000 Jewish residents of Jerusalem.[34] To counter this, the Yishuv authorities tried to supply the city with convoys of up to 100 armoured vehicles, but the operation became more and more impractical as the number of casualties in the relief convoys surged. By March, Al-Husayni's tactic had paid off. Almost all of the Haganah's armoured vehicles had been destroyed, the blockade was in full operation, and hundreds of Haganah members who had tried to bring supplies into the city were killed.[35] The situation for those who dwelt in the Jewish settlements in the highly isolated Negev and North of Galilee was even more critical."
"Through Plan Dalet, Zionist forces had already, from 1 April down to 14 May, conducted 8 of its 13 full-scale military operations outside of the area allotted to a Jewish state by partition, and the operational commander Yigal Allon later stated that had it not been for the Arab invasion, Haganah's forces would have reached 'the natural borders of western Israel.'"
To those continuing to participate in this subthread:
This discussion thread is now over four days old and people are still engaging in inflammatory back-and-forth over historical facts or interpretations of historical facts.
This re-affirms what we see too often with these kinds of topics; that the people who are the most motivated to participate in them are the most attached to their pre-established understanding of the topic and mostly want to keep beating others over the head with it. This is not what HN is for and it destroys what it is for.
We want HN to be a place where people with different perspectives can discuss difficult topics like this in the spirit of curiosity and come away having learned something.
That's not possible when people respond to opposing arguments with barbs like this:
When called for with hard data that shows how preposterous that claim is
This is a blatant lie
This is an absurd lie, that’s either deeply rooted anti semitism or just blatant propaganda.
Seems like you are fully into the zio nazi alternate reality
Please step away from this discussion, take a moment to have a read of the guidelines and make an effort to observe them in future.
