There are plans for making mortgages more expensive by removing tax deductions and for taxing inheritance a whopping 75%. That is hardly giving tax breaks to billionaire, more so screwing over anyone who isn't dirt poor. Oh, and I'm already paying pretty much half my income in various taxes.
Anyone who has a significant amount of money can avoid these taxes, as always.
The problem with inheritance tax is that the person pays taxes all through their lifetime and then when their significant others inherit that wealth (which already has been taxed once at least) it gets taxed again. The issue isn't the amount, the issue is the principle of it.
I suspect BTW the very rich won't ever pay these taxes as there are always ways to restructure the wealth or simply move it elsewhere. I know this is done in the UK. So what it does is punish the middle classes the most.
> The problem with inheritance tax is that the person pays taxes all through their lifetime and then when their significant others inherit that wealth (which already has been taxed once at least) it gets taxed again.
Yes, because that's a transfer to different people. That's not a problem.
The problem is that it's not just treated as income to the recipients—which it manifestly is—with the income tax then being modified to include both advance recognition and windfall spreading options to allow taxpayers to deal with irregular income in a fair basis with more regular income.
This is also the problem with capital gains tax. And its not th people who have the kind of income that avoids regular income taxation that are getting screwed by that.
> Yes, because that's a transfer to different people. That's not a problem
Sorry I don't agree. The tax has already been paid when the person was alive. There shouldn't be a an additional tax on top because it is given to others after they died. Which is what is happening.
> The problem is that it's not just treated as income to the recipients—which it manifestly is—with the income tax then being modified to include both advance recognition and windfall spreading options to allow taxpayers to deal with irregular income in a fair basis with more regular income.
The problem wouldn't exist if the tax was abolished.
> This is also the problem with capital gains tax. And its not the people who have the kind of income that avoids regular income taxation that are getting screwed by that.
Again another case of a problem that wouldn't exist if the tax (capital gains) was abolished.
Tax is a means to an end (paying for civil services). Whether or not something is taxed twice is not inherently wrong, it's just a choice on how we choose to pursue our needs in a way that is effective and equitable.
I mean, reductively, saying something can't be taxed twice doesn't make any sense because all taxes work like that. A company sells products, those sales (and/or value add) are taxed. That money is paid as income, then that income is taxed. That income is spent on goods or services, where the sale (and/or value add) is taxed. Ad infinitum.
A reasonable tax on inheritance, growing with wealth, makes sense in a society that has no effective wealth caps. Otherwise the "haves" accumulate wealth, which accumulates wealth, which accumulates wealth. By imposing a tax on wealth that is not earned, but entirely dependent on the circumstances of one's birth, you create a redistribution scheme that's... Quite fair?
No living person has their labor stolen, some redistribution is achieved, but the heir still receives a significant benefit.
> Tax is a means to an end (paying for civil services). Whether or not something is taxed twice is not inherently wrong, it's just a choice on how we choose to pursue our needs in a way that is effective and equitable.
Well in the UK, the civil services are crap, the police don't do anything, the NHS waiting times are extensive (my mother is waiting for over 2 years for knee surgery), the roads are full of pot holes, and we have more admirals than warships.
So the money doesn't seem to be used effectively. I don't know what you mean by equitable.
> I mean, reductively, saying something can't be taxed twice doesn't make any sense because all taxes work like that. A company sells products, those sales (and/or value add) are taxed. That money is paid as income, then that income is taxed. That income is spent on goods or services, where the sale (and/or value add) is taxed. Ad infinitum.
It almost like the tax man takes at every opportunity. Describing that they tax you many times isn't a justification for more taxes.
> A reasonable tax on inheritance, growing with wealth, makes sense in a society that has no effective wealth caps. Otherwise the "haves" accumulate wealth, which accumulates wealth, which accumulates wealth.
I don't think it is moral or fair to tax beneficiaries of inheritance. It is essentially a gift from the deceased to the beneficiaries.
That the entire point of building up an inheritance for your family/beneficiaries, is that you hope to leave your children better place. I don't know what is fundamentally wrong with building up wealth generationally.
> By imposing a tax on wealth that is not earned, but entirely dependent on the circumstances of one's birth, you create a redistribution scheme that's... Quite fair?
No it isn't fair. The wealth was earned at some point in time, presumably legally. I don't understand why it matters that the person receiving it may have done nothing more than been a family member, family friend or even someone/some organisation that the deceased thought was deserving? When they were alive it was their choice who would receive upon death.
> So the money doesn't seem to be used effectively.
That's not what we're discussing. Nor is it even the country we're discussing? The Netherlands has the second highest quality of life in the world.
> It almost like the tax man takes at every opportunity.
Taxes are a requirement of any functional nation. This just sounds like you have no intention of having a real discussion on tax policy.
> It is essentially a gift from the deceased to the beneficiaries.
Yes, that is what inheritance is. And gifts are taxed. At a higher rate than inheritance!
> I don't know what is fundamentally wrong with building up wealth generationally.
Oh, please, don't straw man me.
Nothing is wrong with generational wealth. Looking at the US, you can see how important it is for social mobility, directly affecting the outcomes of minority communities for decades to even centuries. And through systems like the private healthcare and nursing industries, how it's being targeted to extract every last cent out of American citizens before they die and can hand it off to their loved ones.
But are you seriously pretending you don't know what's wrong with a forever growing wealth inequality? Because inheritance taxes only meaningfully apply to the wealthy. We aren't talking working class folk here.
Are we supposed to wonder how will they ever survive on a mere €820.000 that they did nothing to earn? Despite the fact that being raised by someone with that kind of wealth statistically implies that they'll also be inheriting things like property. And that they will have a more stable upbringing with a better education and opportunities their working class peers would never get.
Most of the money circulating in the economy has been taxed many many times. The money your employer pays you has been taxed, the money that employer got from its customers was taxed, the money those customers used was their salary, which was taxed. That is such a stupid argument to make. It would mean that we should only have one tax at the root of money itself.
What? I'm talking about the netherlands, like is extremely obvious from the context. Read the thread you are replying to...
And I said politicians are talking about changing the laws. There are upcoming elections. Why are you talking about the current laws? Completely irrelevant. I very clearly said:
> There are plans for making mortgages more expensive by removing tax deductions and for taxing inheritance a whopping 75%
I describe the law of and linked to a government website of the Netherlands.
> And I said politicians are talking about changing the laws.
No, you said "there are plans". What you did not say is that one party leader made an insane comment in a campaign cycle met with so much backlash it took less than a day to radically change to "with 0% under €500.000" and has still been unilaterally mocked by opinion makers, politicians, and media.
Buddy, I'm dutch. I am following local politics, and clearly, you're not.
> I describe the law of and linked to a government website of the Netherlands.
No shit? How is the current law relevant to plans to change it?
> What you did not say is that one party leader made an insane comment in a campaign cycle met with so much backlash it took less than a day to radically change to "with 0% under €500.000" and has still been unilaterally mocked by opinion makers, politicians, and media.
Yeah, so he's planning it. For now they seem to have changed their campaign surrounding the subject but there's no saying what they'll do if elected.
Buddy, that's not really was "there are plans to" means. Unless you count MJT talking about Jewish space lasers "plans to" investigate Jewish space lasers from the US government. In which case, you've got a tabloid-level definition.
The quote of the current law is used to emphasize just how ridiculous sounding what you're saying even is.
This is exactly what I mean in my first comment, you clearly aren't here in good faith. Or will you say, straight-faced, that you genuinely believe that the government is actually going to be implementing this?
Anyone who has a significant amount of money can avoid these taxes, as always.