While true that some people do end up in that situation, I think the probability of the average hner ending up in that situation is basically zero. The people who are overrepresented in being harassed by police tend to be underrepresented in technology circles.
Anyone thumbing their nose at the feds or sticking their dick in a 16yo knows what the risks are.
Now, that's not to say I wouldn't welcome with open arms the "errors" of the legal system (or tax system, or municipal code enforcement, or pretty much anything else where government really screws people by messing up) being concentrated upon the demographics that make up places like HN. After all, the ignorance of said demographics do the bulk of the heavy lifting when it comes to providing the political will to perpetuate unjust systems, for they themselves rarely find themselves targeted by them and when they do they can usually pay the problem away. But I do agree with the person you're replying to, the demographics that make up HN find themselves subject to the kind of law enforcement scrutiny that puts you in prison less than the population average.
I'm a white guy working in science and tech, and I only avoided jail by sheer luck (believe it or not, one day my 4-month-old baby vomited at the nanny’s, and if it had happened a few hours earlier I would have been the one arrested by the police).
I was in a relationship, and they were cheating on me, but I did not know that at the time. They also were not sober, which I only found out after the fact. I went to their mom's place to get my things that were there and try to talk to her if possible, and the situation became untenable because of them being unreasonable. I decided to go, and wanted the cat to be in the house while I packed the car. I was a bit more concerned with this issue than might have been reasonable, but didn't use force or anything I can't explain. I needed to recover a legally owned firearm from the property, but didn't want to inflame the situation. I was just concerned for the cat. I told them I would call the authorities if they weren't going to try to resolve the situation without me doing so. I placed the cat inside the door and made a move to go back to our old shared room, as we both stayed with her mom occasionally. They flipped out and hit me with a ceramic dog bowl in the face, nearly knocking one of my teeth out. I was so confused. I knew they didn't want me there, but I wasn't seeking to stay. I wanted to get my things and go, and I wanted the cat to not have to be in a carrier in the heat, because that is cruel and not safe for the animal. I insisted that I call the authorities at this point, and they did too.
The police arrested me, and charge stacked me with multiple felony charges. The case was dropped a year and a half later, mere days before my jury trial was set to begin. My public defender tried to get me to take their deal: 20 years suspended sentence, 10 years time served. I dodged a bullet.
I made a bad call by dating this person, and I had no idea how bad it was until that day. I'm sure I was culpable by being there and allowing this to happen. I could have walked away. I didn't mean to be party to this situation, and I don't like violence or conflict, but it has been normalized in my life due to circumstances prior to the relationship, so I didn't see the warning signs beforehand. I am single now, and am working on myself. I have been given a second chance, and wish my ex well. I don't hold any ill will. It's just not worth it.
I think that these cases are common, or at least ones like it are more common than you think. The authorities have to deal with the situation in front of them, and I don't think folks understand how charge stacking works, or the plea bargain system. I had to tell my lawyer to do their job because I wasn't taking a deal, and that is only because I know enough to know better. Most folks aren't as blameless as I was, and I know I wasn't entirely so, but I did know I didn't break the law in any way, even if I would have done things differently.
This is not to say other folks don't deserve punishment, or leniency. I can only speak for myself. I made a mistake, but I didn't deserve to be a felon over it. I didn't even break the law, though I didn't handle the situation well at all. It was a learning experience, to be sure. Until you've had to try to bond out on felony charges, I think you should not assume how probable these things are. It could happen to anyone.
> I was so confused. I knew they didn't want me there, but I wasn't seeking to stay. I wanted to get my things and go, and I wanted the cat to not have to be in a carrier in the heat, because that is cruel and not safe for the animal. I insisted that I call the authorities at this point, and they did too.
If you read between the lines here, you will realize that the person she was cheating on me with was also there, and was in their bedroom. That other person was plying her with narcotics, just like they had with the last person they were with before they were with my ex. Their ex had died of an overdose, and they didn’t call 911 because they had supplied the fatal dose. I knew that they were also a felon, but my ex had assured me that they weren’t together anymore when it originally came up. All I knew for sure was the other person was capricious with human life and suffering, and they were already a felon for dealing.
When I got hit with the dog bowl, the other person came out of the back room, so I couldn’t even bring up that I needed to get my legal firearm, because I didn’t want them to know it was in the house, and I didn’t want to get the business end of my own implement. I was further assaulted by the other person. The entire time I was just asking for them to stop and for everyone to calm down and to stop hitting me. I now realize that my ex didn’t want me to call the authorities because the other person had active warrants, and they were strung out and didn’t want to lose their supplier.
I had no idea they were seeing the other person behind my back the whole time until later, but I knew enough to know that the situation was rapidly deteriorating. I called 911 as I tried to keep the other person from literally slapping my dangling tooth out of my mouth, as they grabbed my hair. I did attempt to restrain them from hurting me with one hand while holding my phone with the other while on a speakerphone call with a 911 dispatcher.
The police didn’t let me press charges. I was determined to be the aggressor due to being concussed when I was interrogated and being careless with my speech. They interpreted my words as a confession of wrongdoing, and I was never Mirandized/read my rights, then or at any time. I was taken to jail and photographed and fingerprinted.
If I didn’t have cash in my wallet, I wouldn’t have been able to pay to use the phone or the internet tablet to call or email my family, so that they could bond me out. My folks had to put a $5K bond down just to get me out, and that was after a day and a half sleeping on the floor in an overcrowded pod with pre-trial detention folks and those already convicted pooled together in one big room.
Everyone in jail was chill, ironically. I found some books in the hallway and moved them along with me to the pod. I traded some books with another inmate who had a small stack of them. Another guy gave me some instant coffee, which you had to pay for from your commissary fund. I was lucky to bond out. If I hadn’t, I would have had to stay in jail for the entire ~1.5 years pre-trial, even though I was never found guilty; I never went to court at all after entering my plea, as the case was dropped before trial. My public defender didn’t even call to tell me; I had to email them to confirm. The entire process left me feeling like mere grist for the mills of justice.
Always get a lawyer. Ask to be read your rights, then ask for a lawyer. Don’t say anything else, because it will be misconstrued if there is any possibility of fault. The authorities are there to bring charges and convict folks. Justice is a heading, but not a goal. Closing cases and getting convictions is their job. This is true even of public defenders, as they get paid by the same government that pays the prosecutor to convict you.
Never go to trial without a lawyer, as anyone who represents themselves has a fool for a client. On that point, get a private attorney if you can at all. Public defenders who don’t try to make you take a deal are few and far between, and my charges would likely have not been dropped if not for my ex’s mom calling the prosecutor and my lawyer and telling them to drop it or she would embarrass everyone in open court for making a mountain out of a molehill. My ex and their mom never even knew that the case was coming up. My public defender didn’t even reach out to them.
The entire system looks functional on the surface, but it’s so broken it’s nearly unbelievable if I didn’t experience it for myself.
So sorry to hear this happened to you; thanks for sharing and glad to hear everything turned out ok. Ive heard of similar situations where a friend ended up in a house that was the scene of a crime but was charged with multiple felonies even though he was there after the crime had occurred and was the one to call the cops. Most people just don’t understand cops; most of them are trying to minimize the work they need to do and as soon as they have established a narrative they will just go with it. Especially for lower class neighborhoods and especially when dealing with people who have “priors”, regardless of how minor they might be.
Most people’s experience of the law is through television/movies and its just so inaccurate.
I appreciate that you said this, but if I deserve any sympathy at all, it should actually go to the cat. My ex and her mom moved away, and my ex gave the cat to a neighbor, but I felt that I failed myself, my ex, my ex’s mom, the cat, and my folks. I did not handle the situation as well as I needed to to avoid this. It was preventable, and once the situation started to turn, I should have spoken with law enforcement instead of anything else. I just didn’t want to be responsible for dropping a dime on the other person, even though that wasn’t my intention, and even though they likely deserve whatever they would have gotten if I had.
I could have found another better way. I was a fool and I was not found guilty, but I was surely tested in the moment, and I am not satisfied with the outcome or my contribution to the interaction. These charges are a millstone on my record all the same. I can only be a warning to others:
I was right to care about the cat and my legally owned firearm, because I needed to remove it from the premises, and I did so later with assistance from law enforcement when picking up my vehicle from their place. At least they didn’t tow my car. Everything else was optional, as the relationship was essentially over at that point. I was not able to communicate freely due to the unknown unknown that I was being cheated on in that very moment, and I should have deferred to law enforcement sooner than when I was assaulted.
Ironically, I was just getting over Covid and didn’t feel 100%, and that was the stated reason for my ex isolating at their mom’s place to begin with.
I think my ex just was not happy in the relationship because they had not had great relationships generally, but quite the opposite.
They had dated a member of the Suicide Boys in Atlanta, made beats for them, was denied credit on them upon publication, violating her rights as an artist, and they got her hooked on Xanax by controlling her access to her own legitimate prescription she had a legitimate need for. Then they just showed her the door when she tried to protest. A different man had tried to SA her, and she had to literally stab that guy in the thigh. She had baggage, and she isn’t wrong for not wanting to be with me, just for lying about going behind my back. Her trust issues were not my fault, but I wasn’t able to be what she needed or wanted, and I couldn’t be what I needed or wanted either, because I was forced into a position of authority over her medications due to her history of issues with meds that were not of her own design. I was trying to have a relationship with someone who had no business being in one, but I did genuinely care for them.
Manipulative men broke her down long before I met her. By staying when I should have gone, I was unequally yoked to someone who depended on me, and I was not able to be the man she needed me to be, because I am not a mental health and substance abuse professional. I did what I could, but I’m not trained for this shit. She needed a doctor or a psychiatrist, or both.
She didn’t need me, but we were people who saw the best in each other. Her actions were not kind, but I don’t blame her, because she didn’t choose to be abused by others. It’s different for women, and I didn’t know that in until I saw how folks treated her. She brought out the best in me, but it wasn’t enough. Love isn’t enough.
She was a victim in all of this as surely as the cat. I was not a victim of anything but circumstance.
I thought I was doing my ex a kindness by not asking for help from authorities, but I actually did myself a disservice.
I can only learn from the experience, as some things you don’t know til you go. I was right, but I was nearly dead right.
> The entire system looks functional on the surface, but it’s so broken it’s nearly unbelievable
That's what I got from watching Deviant Ollam and a couple of the popular YouTube lawyers.
The justice system mostly serves those with money, and if you're working class the biggest predictor of whether you'll go to jail is how much time you spend in the radiation of this broken system. Don't stay close, don't stay long. Always have a lawyer ahead of time, don't talk to cops.
Ollam has a friend in prison now and she got beat very badly when she first went in. For a non violent crime of basically security research
Deviant Ollam is an inspiration. He can work a room like few can, and he seems genuinely kind and happy despite it all. That’s someone who I can learn from.
It’s been a long time coming, but I’m becoming radicalized by the idea of becoming a lawyer myself. The only way forward is through.
