> they failed to make phones that are convenient to carry.
I loved the iPhone SE and small phones generally, but at the same time I realize Apple's not failing at anything. They're giving the market the size people actually want. The smaller phones don't sell nearly as well. Most people prefer a bigger phone even if carrying it is less convenient.
I've just accepted my phone will be bulky now, so I double down and attach a magnetic wallet to it, and carry it in my hand or jacket pocket or bag rather than my pants pocket like I used to. During meetings it lies on the table rather then in my pants pocket. C'est la vie.
Maybe there's room in the world for a device people want, even if it's not the device the majority want? I mean I know Apple is just a small startup company with only a $4 trillion valuation, but maybe they could just do one thing that isn't maximally profitable once in a while.
I don't get this logic. Putting aside that to get 33 different models you would come up with 5-6 different form factors, each of them on a distinct point in the tradeoff scale, why do you think that something is only worth doing if it can be put on an uniform supply-demand curve?
Apple made nearly $190 billion last year selling just iPhones.
If you think it costs more than $5 billion to design a phone and set up a production line, you are wildly off base. That’s the kind of money companies spend to build silicon fabs or release half a dozen new car models, not consumer products made by a contract manufacturer.
...you do know that Apple produces its own silicon, and probably uses about an entire TSMC fab's worth of capacity? In the end, the money to build that fab is coming from Apple.
Apple isn't making average consumer products with average contract manufacturers.
If Apple didn't run such a closed ecosystem, other hardware vendors would step in and be happy to sell a form factor that 3% of the market uses.
I keep trying to use Andriod to get more choice on form factor, but one thing always brings me back to an iPhone: texting incompatibility. Apple has me locked into their ecosystem because I can't get a decent quality video texted to me.
As an Apple fan since the 90s who remembers how Microsoft abused its market dominance for decades, it's particularly ironic that Apple continues to use this technique against other companies.
There is a wide variety of form factors available in the android ecosystem. Whether or not they fit your definition of "decent" just depends on how much you prioritize size:
Foldables get this job done well. My (OG) Pixel Fold is a great size & aspect ratio while folded, easy to use one-handed, but has a giant screen when you open it up. The newer Pixel Folds and the other foldables on the market have all grown the screen vertically but they're still more compact than most flagships.
I wouldn't. I personally think iOS kind of sucks, and I only keep using it because Android developers don't support devices long enough for me. Third party developers would be as much a mess as they are in the Android world and at that point I'd rather have a phone with a good OS.
> I can't get a decent quality video texted to me.
It seems this gap has significantly closed, assuming both sides have RCS support. I've got a number of decent quality videos sent through RCS from friends through RCS.
Apple developed iMessage to work around the problems with SMS and MMS, as well as decrease load on carrier networks. There is no closed ecosystem, you can still receive messages and videos from iPhone users, just at the quality your hardware and software can support.
Google later decided to come up with a completely different implementation called RCS to deal with the same problems. Rather than work with Apple on bringing an iMessage app to Android or licensing it, they instead tried to pressure Apple with a public advertising campaign to adopt what is frankly an inferior solution that doesn't even have reliable end-to-end encryption.
Your complaint is basically that you bought a Toyota and it does not have BMW's laser headlights that adjust brightness and angle automatically. You still have headlights, you just didn't spend the money to get the good ones.
Yes because Google offered nothing of value in return. Like in my example, nothing stops Toyota from offering enough money to license BMW's laser headlights.
Google tried the same thing Apple did long before RCS when it made Hangouts the default SMS app for Android. Conversations could be upgraded from SMS to Google's internet-based chat protocol if the other person had an account; it was even available for iPhones, but it couldn't be an SMS client.
Lets be honest, Hangouts (which of the three versions) was a crappy chat app that they wanted to boost the usage of. It wasn't intended to be a functional SMS replacement.
> just at the quality your hardware and software can support.
I assure you, Android phones have been able to render video of far higher quality than what Apple devices would send to them through MMS.
iMessage is a cloud ecosystem. I cannot install iMessage on my Android device.
> Rather than work with Apple on bringing an iMessage app to Android
Apple has been free to release this app at any time. There is nothing Google is doing that prevents it from being made. The only people preventing this app from existing are the people at Apple.
> Rather than work with Apple on bringing an iMessage app to Android or licensing it
This seems like an unfair take - Apple is on record using iMessage specifically to deteriorate the experience between Android and iOS users. I don't see them working with Google to bring iMessage to Android.
Not to mention the SE (variant of the 4 I think?) was way more popular. Dismissing the whole concept just because one implementation at one time was a relative flop (and as you point out, that's still a lot of sales).
Also, they're happy to have Pro and non-Pro SKUs etc., just averse to smaller for reason.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy to launch the iPhone mini during Covid, offer it 2 years, and say no one wants them.
The haters dismiss the SE point by saying it was the price, not size. But it does prove that no one avoids phones due to being "too small".
The size increase is because of cost optimization. Where it's wrong is that everything else meant for humans comes in small, medium, and large. Phones? Just large and XL.
Good, in some ways. But do people want to pay higher prices for these iPhones to cover the costs that have to be amortized over a lower volume of devices?
What people like me wanted was an iPhone 13 mini that's a bit thicker so it can have a bit more battery capacity. And with the 120 Hz PWM nausea fixed.
The iPhone Air has worse battery life. And it has a larger screen. And it's worse to handle one-handed. Coming from the 13 mini, it's not an improvement.
I bought an Air, coming from a 13 mini, and I largely agree with you on all those points except the battery life. I'm not sure why everyone keeps saying the Air has bad battery life, which maybe it does compared to the 17 or 17 Pro etc, but the past week I've been test driving it it has more than all day battery life for me. My 13 mini needed a recharge in the middle of the day (battery was worn down to about 83%).
Otherwise, yeah, you're right. I'm pretty sure I'm going to return it this week before my 14 days are up.
The one thing I don’t see criticized enough is the lack of a SIM card slot in international models. I understand they physically couldn’t fit it in, but I bet it's a deal breaker for everybody who has no experience with CDMA phones, so basically everybody outside of North America.
> it's a deal breaker for everybody who has no experience with CDMA phones, so basically everybody outside of North America.
Huh? CDMA is long dead, and the technical capabilities of physical and e-SIMs are identical. SIM = Subscriber Identity Module, all it does is encode your identity.
As far as I know, CDMA, compared to GSM, didn't have a SIM card equivalent. The identity information was baked into the handset and if you wanted to move your number from one phone into another, you had to get in touch with your carrier.
eSIM reintroduces this problem. Those who experienced it 20-odd years ago with CDMA may feel like home. But elsewhere, where it's always been a norm to have the easily transferable physical SIM card, it might be viewed as too much of a hassle.
My wife didn't have international data with the carrier she had previously. When we traveled out of the country at first she was thinking she wouldn't care and would just get by with wifi. After a couple of days she changed her mind and wanted to have some kind of service. It was extremely simple to find a provider through the hotel WiFi, prepay for a week of service, download the SIM to the phone, and boom she was back to having service. Manged to get it all done at breakfast.
So long as the carrier is simple to get an eSIM it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Its trivial to transfer an eSIM on Android assuming both devices are still functional. Its pretty easy to load an eSIM, compared to having to somehow call the phone company and have them manually enter the IMEI or whatever from back in the day. The only somewhat pain point is when your old device is smashed and you don't have any internet. In that case, having a physical SIM is better, I agree.
I bought a Pro Max for myself and an Air for my wife, who had a Mini before.
The Air is DAMN SMALL. You really should try holding it. Yes the 2D dimensions are as large as a normal modern phone but it’s hardly there otherwise. It’s a good compromise.
> Yes the 2D dimensions are as large as a normal modern phone but it’s hardly there otherwise.
The 2D dimensions are literally the only thing I care about. I'm going to barely notice the weight difference. The actual thickness is a lie with the giant camera hump.
What I do care about is whether I can operate it single-handedly: I want my thumb to reach the top of the screen (so I can drag down the notification bar and click nav stuff) while the bottom of the phone is resting on my pinky. I could easily do that on my Galaxy S III Mini, it was comfortable with my Moto G 2, it was just about doable with my Nokia 6.1 - and it is impossible with my Pixel 7. At no point did I I actively look for a larger phone: going for a larger model has always been an unavoidable compromise.
It's entirely about the 2D space in terms of being able to easily hold it in one hand and reach the whole screen, as well as other things like how it fits into pockets. I have large hands and an iPhone 13 mini, and it still feels too big for me to use comfortably with one hand.
I'm curious how well it is selling. Early on there was a lot of enthusiasm, but I haven't heard much since. I don't know if I'd want a phone with less battery life, but my understanding is the Air's battery is actually not much smaller than last year's pro?
> Foxconn has reportedly dismantled all but one and a half of its production lines for the iPhone Air , and all production is expected to be stopped at the end of the month
Ouch! That sounds pretty bad, indeed.
I was originally a little interested in the Air because I wanted to downsize from my previous 15 Pro Max. I ultimately decided that the Air was only thinner, and still big in the dimensions I wanted it to be smaller in.
Neither is Samsung's similar Galaxy Edge apparently, to the extent that the product line may have already been cancelled after just one generation. Both companies probably should have sat on that idea until they could offset the physically smaller batteries with the much denser silicon-carbon technology.
The battery is actually fine, better than the iPhone 16’s. The single camera and the pricing are the main problem, along with assorted minority showstoppers like single speaker and large size. It’s also not that much lighter, actually heavier than previous iPhones like the 12. People who are fine with a single camera and want less weight can also get the 16e for a much lower price, and then at least get stereo speakers. Add to that the very strong offering of the iPhone 17 this year.
I think it's possible this is a good summary explanation, but isn't this a bit like saying "We only make shirts in medium because it's what the majority wants."
I would switch from Android to Apple if this fixed this problem.
Come to think of it, the only reason I switched from Android to Apple was because the 12 Mini wasn't massive and was actually a decent phone. If I have to get a massive phone again, I might as well go back to Android.
All big. 5 the same size category, barely different.
Then they push a tiny-tiny device, the watch. Inbetween? Empty desert.
They do not do things smartly but by force. Like the omission of physical home button, notch, no jack, clud first, and a lot of other things forced on us. Some decide to live with, or even adapt the love of it, despite never ever asked for it. Using the force like Darth Vader.
They used to make the "mini" but that's because Jobs had taste and it's what he, specifically, wanted in his pocket. Now Jobs is gone and... no more mini.
But I'll keep my iPhone 13 mini going as long as I can.
I own an iPhone 16 pro, but I’m constantly thinking about switching to an iPhone 13 mini with an aftermarket battery conversion to make it last all day. The only thing that holds me back is that I can’t easily convert it to USBC.
My battery is on its last legs, and I was going to pick up an iFixit one at some point and do the swap, but I believe theirs is the OEM configuration/capacity. Is there another option for an actual higher capacity battery?
It doesn't seem like Repart do direct to consumer sales; I'll look around and see if I can find somewhere reputable to buy that in Canada.
Based on this reddit thread, it doesn't seem that there's really a consensus around whether these purported supersized after market batteries are the real deal:
They made it, it didn't sell well. Last I checked zero Android manufacturers were still creating high quality small phones (<5.5"). The Android community has resorted to petitions like https://smallandroidphone.com
Some people definitely want it, but when not even one Android manufacturer will create a model when they can get 100% market share, it looks like there isn't enough demand.
You've hit the nail on the head. There are still some manufacturers that make small phones, and some that make high quality phones, but zero that make high quality small phones. Apple used to be our last respite, now we have nothing.
We don’t know. If having such a phone keeps someone in the Apple ecosystem that may be more valuable. All their services they’re always pitching. People with iPhones are more likely to buy iPads and Macs.
Maybe the get tired of the tiny screen or want a better camera and move up in a few years.
The value of a customer over a longer time horizon, perhaps 10 years, may be better if you let them buy the phone you make $250 on instead of $450.
He’s maximizing value for the quarter. That so often steers companies wrong.
Tim Cook told people they should sell their shares if they wanted Apple to abandon environmental sustainability policies. And he identified accessibility as a similar issue.[1]
Yes, the point I was trying to make is that companies can get away with not being maximally profitable. There's nothing legally stopping Apple from accepting a slightly lower profit margin on the 5% of sales volume that might go to smaller iPhones if they would offer them. But it might brighten the day for millions of customers.
That's trailing PE. A standard response to that observation would be that the market is forward looking. So I try to stick to forward PE when discussing price. 200 is still insane in any case, it's an order of magnitude higher than, for example, GOOG.
I'm all for that when it comes to things like accessibility technology that allows people to do things they otherwise couldn't. But screen sizes? You can use a larger screen, you just prefer a smaller one.
What “the market wants” is a maximally addictive device. It’s a really low bar even if highly profitable. Bigger screens make it more exciting and addictive.
Just profoundly weird to me that small manufacturers can’t make small phones because they’re small and can’t pay for it, and large manufacturers can’t make it because…(checks notes)…they’re large and don’t want to pay for it even if there’s demand.
My guess would be that all those people that wanted small phones had an iPhone SE and now all their data is locked into Apple's walled garden and that's why they will begrudgingly buy a larger phone, even though they would have preferred a smaller one.
In short: Apple can get away with ignoring what those customers want.
I mean, I would assume most folks who liked the SE still have one. The SE 3 just stopped production this year and should have several years of software updates left (the SE 1 just ended software support this year, 7 years after it was discontinued.
Not hard only when you know exactly what you need to do already on both sides.
There is zero chance I could convince any of my in-laws to switch away from iOS. Data isn't what they care about. It's all about blue bubbles and a decade of familiarity with iOS (and it's irrelevant that the UX between Android and iOS have drifted to be so similar).
It couldn't be easier to export or import your data, connect and disconnect your accounts, etc. I'd like the angry hackers who are down voting me to explain which barriers exactly Apple puts against data portability.
I don't understand why you're brining up your in-laws in your response if they don't care about data.
Then you should use a different solution to solve your problem, which you can easily find. Unless your main interest is having a problem to complain about. In that case, you've already found the solution.
(I actually appreciate you doing a Kagi search for me, btw. I've heard great things about Kagi, and it would've been great if something came up there that didn't on DDG or Google.)
My whole digital life other than my iPhone works very well! Never better, really. Been Linux-exclusive for years after switching after the release of Windows 10.
Just a real pity that iOS doesn't provide something as simple as a proper export feature. A kicker is that the Photos app does allow you to "Export Unmodified Original" for multiple photos or even whole albums. But you can't do this to everything in Photos (what used to be called the camera roll). There's no "select all" button to work around this.
I have to retreat my statement then a little bit, in that it's easy to get your data out of Apple, with the exception of Linux. But Linux is usually the exception for any kind of user convenience stuff, and Linux users know what they're getting themselves into.
The point is, that since Apple is providing dedicated tools both for Mac and for Windows to get your photos off your phone, I don't think it's fair to accuse them of trying to lock in people to their devices.
Same with other stuff like bookmarks, passwords, etc.
> Just profoundly weird to me that small manufacturers can’t make small phones because they’re small and can’t pay for it, and large manufacturers can’t make it because…(checks notes)…they’re large and don’t want to pay for it even if there’s demand.
Large and small companies sell smaller Android phones.
It's very difficult to find something around 140 grams and 140x80 even giving them some slack about the thickness. The Samsung S25 [1] is about there but I currently still use an A40 [2] because of the size and weight. I'd give away a couple of cm of height. A zero bezel 120mm phone would be ok. 120 grams are a dream.
Your weight requirements are more restrictive than your size requirements. GSMArena's phone finder found foldable or rugged phones which satisfied size but not weight. And Unihertz phones appear well known where small phones are discussed but are not in GSMArena's database for some reason. The Unihertz Jelly Star satisfied your requirements. But the screen is smaller than the 1st iPhone's even.
The problem is Apple's monopoly on devices that run iOS. In an alternate reality, Apple licensed out iOS, and alternative designs could flourish. The Android ecosystem still has keyboard phones a la Blackberry. Caterpillar makes an Android phone with a FLIR camera. It's a gimmick, unless you work somewhere where it's not.
In this alternate history, there's a tiny design firm out of Carmel, south of Cupertino, doing bespoke runs of an iPhone 4 with A18s and eSIM capability and they're always sold out.
That happened with the Mac in the mid 90s and Apple closed the deals immediately when the clones started to sell well, because they were better machines than the ones Apple sold. If Apple didn't stop the clones they would be a software company by now and we'd probably have a PC market with 90% of Mac compatible machines and 10% of Windows PCs + Linux.
In this alternate history, who would have invested the billions of dollars in developing the processor line all the way up through the A18 if it's not available as a market differentiator?
Why, P.A. Semiconductor, of course! Yeah I'm just making shit up in my alternate history, but even in our reality there are several SoC manufacturers; Qualcomm, Broadcom, MediaTek, NVIDIA, AMD, Marvell, Rockchip, Allwinner. There are a lot of things out there if just want to run Android on a thing. Even more if I'm just trying to run Doom.
I want an SE4 with touch ID and a 4 inch screen and an A18 processor in it, not the monstrosity that is the 16e. If things were more open; what I really want to see is what we almost get to see with Kickstarter. If I could find one million people to do a first run who're willing to pay $750 for a first run edition, just to simply break even, and then make money off subsequent runs as demand does or does not exist.
Five of these are race-to-the-bottom business models. One is use-the-legal-system-to-retain-your-customers. The last two don't make cell phone class parts, and probably wouldn't be interested in the margins.
I mention this to make a point -- the quality of the A18 that you (reasonably) want in a smaller, niche-market phone isn't a coincidence, it's a consequence of the designer being able to justify the investment because it acts as a market differentiator. PASemi would never have been able to do that on its own, any more than MediaTek has -- customers have no brand faithfulness to cell phone processor manufacturers, so as long as the OEM can freely move between them the distinction must be on price, at the cost of performance. There are upsides to the more open market you imagine in your alternate history, but it would come with the downside of the high end of the market being less developed, and flat out worse, due to less segmentation being possible.
Qualcomm and Apple processors have similar performance.
Most customers have no brand faithfulness to desktop processor manufacturers. Why would this stagnate phone processor development when it did not stagnate desktop processor development?
Can Apple lock-in those people who definitely want small phones by some prepaid arrangements which the users can't back out? That would be market working. Is there a reason why they don't do this?
It's not that they can't. They want to make money. When given the choice between making more money and less money, they'll generally choose more. They think making a smaller device would make less money. The sales numbers for previous attempts back this up. There's an enormous fixed cost for developing a new model, and it's not worthwhile unless that results in enough additional sales. There's demand, for sure, but how much? They think not enough, and I suspect they know what they're doing here.
That's a weird take. Large screens aren't primarily more "addictive", they're primarily more productive. They work as a better e-reader, a better text editor, better for watching a movie on a plane, better for reading maps, I could go on and on. (And if a company were incentivized to truly make an "addicting" phone, it would be Meta that would benefit from the social media ads, or TikTok. Not Apple.)
Large manufacturers can make them. But there isn't enough demand to make them profitable enough. It's not a question of whether they "want to pay for it", it's just simple economics. They're businesses, not charities. I like small phones, but I understand manufacturers are doing what's economically rational given market preferences and I don't blame them for it.
There are studies that show that engagement with smartphones is higher when the screen is larger. Seems like Apple's been doing their homework.
> However, a follow-up phantom model analysis using 10,000 bootstrap samples at 95% bias-corrected confidence intervals revealed that the overall magnitude of the hedonic path (i.e., LS→PAQ→AT→IU; B=0.14, SE=0.06, p<0.01) was larger than that of the utilitarian path (i.e., LS→PC→PEOU→PU→IU; B=0.07, SE=0.03, p<0.01) even though participants were given a task-oriented, rather than entertainment-oriented (e.g., gaming, movie watching), assignment during the experiment. This implies that users are likely to put greater emphasis on the affective dimension of the technology than on its utilitarian dimension, despite the practical, purposeful nature of the assigned task. Given that user affect (e.g., positive or negative feelings) toward a technology is typically attributed as the central characteristic of the technology (regardless of the accuracy of the attribution),55 the practical implication of this finding is that smartphone manufacturers ought to take full advantage of the positive effects of the large screen on PAQ when designing their products. However, the more challenging design implication is that the optimal level of screen size that does not jeopardize the anywhere–anytime mobility of smartphones should first be identified, since screen size cannot be indefinitely increased in the mobile context. Thus, the remaining question to be addressed in future research is the optimal size of the mobile screen.
But why are we needing a phone to be productive? And they were already a distraction from the world around us when they fit in a single hand.
I know I'm probably abnormal, but my phone is a phone first, camera second, and "work" device fifth.
As a society, our boundaries around communication and instant contact to anyone have collapsed. Now if you don't respond to a message within a few minutes, you get multiple follow ups. If you don't pick up the phone when a friend calls you, they don't leave a message, they text, then call again, then text again.
We've gone from being able to leave the house, and no one can contact us for a few hours, to no matter where we are people are trying to contact us. So they may be more "productive" with larger screens, but we never asked whether they SHOULD be more productive.
Being able to instantly communicate via photo and video makes a lot of people’s lives easier. For example, getting quotes for a house repair to save on travel time and energy getting estimates, showing before and after pictures to document performed work, and myriad more examples.
If someone is contacting you too much, that’s a problem solved by asking them not to harass you, not by putting limits on the device for everyone else.
And somehow you inferred that because one person doesn’t need their phone to be productive in that way, that they want to limit everyone?
I use my phone for web browsing 99% of the time. I don’t need it to have AI processors or loads of brand new tech. I want it to be cheap, functional, and expendable. So I definitely question whether a phone needs to be super “productive” in that sense too. But people who want their aircraft carrier phones that don’t fit in their pockets and cost over $1000 can have that too.
There is a number of small Android phones, so apparently there is demand in that niche, and smaller companies can address it and make money.
But this is because Google is a software / service company, so it keeps Android open.
Apple is a hardware company, and always has been. They have a relatively narrow lineup of devices which they support for a very long time, compared to Android devices. So Apple are not interested in fringe markets; they go for the well-off mainstream mostly.
An Apple Watch with a cellular connection, paired with Airpods, fulfills some of the role of a small iPhone - you can make calls, listen to music, and even do some light texting if Siri likes your accent.
I love my apple watch but I can safely say i've never done any of the above with it. It's too much of a pain to switch the bluetooth headphones to it and the screen is too small to do much actual computing with it. The fitness aspects are totally worth the money, though.
That's not a compelling argument when the same chart also shows the iPhone SE 2022 lagging behind iPhone SE 2020, even though they have identical form factors.
When the SE2022 came out, most people preferring smaller iPhones were already using either an SE or a mini, and the SE2022 didn’t offer much compelling reasons to upgrade from an SE2020. The SE2020, on the other hand, launched before the first mini, and after four years of waiting since the SE1.
Small phones (to an extent) are less expensive than larger phones to manufacture.
The thought that "Small phones are only more popular because they're less expensive" seems to willfully ignore that the phones are less expensive because their inputs are less expensive, because they're smaller.
I wonder about the idea that they're less expensive. True in terms of materials, but possibly not true if the smaller production run means you can't offset the capital costs of manufacturing the parts.
That's fair. I suspect that as phones get more "premium" the margin from a small phone shrinks faster than a larger phone.
HTC has been making cheap (very cheap) and small phones for the discount market. Foldables exist in the premium space, but the price tags appear to bake in a higher margin for a device that won't sell the same volume.
And in Germany, the iPhone 16e 128GB in white currently sells for €537 at "Netto Marken-Discount", a supermarket chain famous for its low price. "Marken-Discount" = "brand name rebates"
I don't think they even set out to make a small phone with the SE, they set out to make a cheap phone. They achieved that by reusing older generation iPhone tooling which just happened to be smaller, as was the style at the time. When they refreshed the SE line it too got larger as it graduated to using later generation tooling.
I don’t know what they set out to do, but the marketing material specifically emphasized the compact form factor. (I’m reluctant to call it “small”, because the iPhone 5 didn’t seem small to me at the time.)
I bought :( Loved the thing, but yeah batter life wasn't the best. Also noticed that app developers would sometimes not take into account the smaller viewport on the Mini, and so app views would sometimes look too squished or out of place. That 's a minor grouse though compared to the subpar batter life.
The iPhone sales figures where probably a disappointment, for Apple. Had it been released by any other company it would have been viewed as a huge success. The sales numbers are just pretty poor, for an iPhone.
I think Apple has such high expectation to sales figures that even if a smaller iPhone comes in, even as the 10th best selling phone, that's maybe only 5% of all iPhone sales. Massively successful as a phone, millions of people bought it, but to Apple, the SE is a side hustle at best.
My daughters friends made fun of my iPhone SE3, they had never seen a phone that small.
We don’t have the iPhone 17e, so for now there’s no way to tell if they will do this every year or what.
Similarly people have called the 16e as a replacement for the SE line, but that’s a cost assessment not one based of form factor. It could be most people bought the SE because it was cheap, but without two different form factors at identical prices there’s no way to tell.
It’s a replacement in the sense that they discontinued the SE when they introduced the 16e. I agree that it’s not a very close replacement in practical terms, but that’s also why the designation changed.
Regarding the 17e, the supply chain rumor mill keeps mentioning it, so it definitely seems to be a thing.
> They're giving the market the size people actually want.
Are they, though?
In my experience the smaller phones are almost always substantially worse products: they have several gigabytes less RAM, usually half the storage of the alternatives, often lack features like wireless charging, have a slower CPU, have a worse camera, and in general are made using cheaper materials.
We don't know what the market wants, because the market was never able to make a fair choice. It wasn't "big phone vs small phone", it was "big full-featured phone vs shitty watered-down small phone" - no wonder people "chose" for the big phones.
That’s not completely correct. In particular, the mini resolution corresponds to the Display Zoom options on current iPhones, so applications are still expected to support them, not to mention that iOS will support the mini models for 2-3 more years to come.
In addition, the outer screen of next year’s iPhone Fold will be shorter than the mini, so applications really need to be flexible here.
I don't understand anything of what you're saying. But I do know that it was quite noticeable that most applications expect a bigger screen on small iPhones. Most UI elements are either too small and hard to use, or taking away too much space feom elsewhere.
There's nothing you can do with scaling here, if apps are made for big screens. It is a feedback loop. It would require a whole new ecosystem to break out by now. Impossible.
They might technically support them, but no one tests them properly and they’re certainly not a good user experience. I’ve personally made apps where I have never tested them on such zoom levels if I’m perfectly honest.
Considering the sheer ramp up for manufacturing at the scale of iphone sales, and how unpopular tiny phones are, it’s completely understandable they’re not interested in catering to the < 1% of users they’d gain by making a small phone. You have to remember lost sales only truely include people who literally leave the platform or never upgrade again instead of just grumbling and buying the new phone anyway.
What ramp up? It's been less than a year since they discontinued the SE 2022.
Apple could have kept improving the CPU and camera and not much else and would have had a steady stream of income from those of us who want to use our actual pockets (not a weird swaddle) to carry our phones.
The iPhone SE accounted for 5-12% of the market, depending on year. The iPhone mini accounted for about 5%. Let's conservatively call it 13%.
Apple had iPhone revenue of $205bn in 2022. The average smaller iPhone is about .5-.67 the cost of a flagship model.
So fuzzy math, but .13 * .5 * 205000000000 = a $1.3bn market for iPhones you can use with one hand.
Thats nothing to sneeze at. Way more of a market than something like a Magic Trackpad.
Apple is making like 100bn a quarter. 102.4bn last quarter to be exact. 1.3bn in a whole year is indeed something for apple to sneeze at.
And the ramp up is to design and organise manufacture of a whole new phone line. They also would likely have received a hit in sales in general if they didn’t upgrade the design as people would feel insulted and also it would stick out like an ignored pig in the lineup, which isn’t good for apples brand either.
The truth is, you’d likely make the same decision if you were CEO, especially if you have to justify it to shareholders.
If Apple produced an Iphone SE with battery life that lasted, by making it a little thicker, then people would buy it IMO. The problem with the small phones is they arecreated on the premise that they should be crappy phones.
Of course everyone has a different version of what they consider crappy but bad battery life has got to be at the top of most people's crap-o-meter
iPhone 13 Mini was as you say. In every way as good as the full size iPhone but small. I hear it was quite an engineering challenge. I love the thing. The people of earth did not buy it.
It was a self-fulfilling prophecy to launch the iPhone mini during Covid, offer it 2 years, and say no one wants them. Especially when the SE proved people have no aversion to a normal sized phone meant for human hands.
Is it too big as a phone/SMS device? Yes. But as long as it's smaller than an equivalent digital camera or handheld gaming device or portable GPS it's still appropriately sized for how I mostly use it.
Life with modern large smartphones gets a lot easier if you just give up on the one handed use paradigm. I use my devices during the day mostly hands free via where I can for passive stuff like setting timers or listening to podcasts, or controlled via my smart watch. I’m only pulling out my actual phone because I want to use an app, type a whole ass email, or google something in a web browser. I accept I just use two hands for that and then put it away again. If anything it keeps me from picking it up unless I want to use it properly, which isn’t such a bad thing.
It’s not just one-handed use, but also pocketability and lower weight, which just feels nice. I have no trouble using apps. The iPhone mini still has a few years of life left, so I’m not in a hurry to change.
Depends what you're using it for. Typing? I agree, it's not, although I'd argue the original wasn't either, but other people thought the original was too small.
However as a camera? With the new camera button position it works pretty fine with just one hand. As a thing you tap and while it's in a mount? Also an appropriate size for one handed use.
The bigger phones have that feature where you can make the keyboard move a bit to one side of the phone for one handed typing too, not sure a lot of people know about that.
I suspect the iPhone Mini didn't sell well for reasons beyond people generally preferring larger phones, and suspect it might sell better today.
The biggest issue is that it was introduced in 2020 when many people were in lockdowns. A phone's portability was not as important, and people mainly using their phone at home on the couch likely preferred large screens more than usual.
The second issue is that the screens used slow pulse width modulation for dimming and could appear flickery for some users.
Finally, battery life was uncompetitive. Sony Xperia Compact models introduced years earlier had larger batteries. My guess is accepting a tiny bit more thickness would solve this problem.
I loved the iPhone SE and small phones generally, but at the same time I realize Apple's not failing at anything. They're giving the market the size people actually want. The smaller phones don't sell nearly as well. Most people prefer a bigger phone even if carrying it is less convenient.
I've just accepted my phone will be bulky now, so I double down and attach a magnetic wallet to it, and carry it in my hand or jacket pocket or bag rather than my pants pocket like I used to. During meetings it lies on the table rather then in my pants pocket. C'est la vie.