I think the author is on to something here, but, I have a couple of suggestions which I think will make his viewpoint more accurate. I think positivity is underrated by the HN community and so I could see why this post would be well received here, however from my point of view, saying things like "Fuck You and the Positive Attitude You Rode In On" is not constructive.
I don't see people's statements as opportunities to argue, as this quote indicates the author does: "Grow Up and Learn To Argue Like An Adult". I see them more like a construction. Someone presents their view point, and if its not what I see as truth, its not my job to "argue" it, its now OUR job to figure out truth. So the conversation should be a back and forth of explanation until the truth is agreed upon. This does require both participants to be willing to change their viewpoint, which I agree people need to be better at.
In the case of the manager saying people need to have a more positive attitude, my strategy there would be: be willing to entertain the idea and then explore the idea together. As you explore the idea, genuinely bring up concerns you see from your perspective, e.g. "Oh but that will be problematic because we don't have enough time with projects X, Y, and Z going on. If you did mandate this, moral will go down and at best your rating will go down, at worst people may leave." Suddenly the manager is illuminated.
If the individual you're discovering truth with refuses to acknowledge your viewpoint and either accept it or counteract it with knowledge of their own, then you should be concerned about the long term implications of interacting with such an individual. Specifically, people who have difficulty incorporating new information into their model of the world often often lack positive growth trajectory, and likely have problems dealing with change when it inevitably arrives. I'd distance myself.
My advice to the author would be to do as I've done with this comment: look for where the other person is coming from and realize that there are reasons people say and do the things they say and do. Then, instead of attacking, approach it as an opportunity for both of you to learn something new by sharing your differing viewpoints and converging on the truth. I'm looking forward to discovering the truth of how best to handle these situations based on the experience provided in by those who may respond to my comment! :)
As an addendum: sometimes people are immovable from their position due to things outside of their control, but we still must interact with them. The receipt checker at Sam's Club will never be convinced enough of my opinion to act in accordance with it, for example. In this case, we are not at issue with the person, but with the rule. Therefore, I try to act as obliquely to the rule as possible, and encourage others to do so as well so that it no longer makes sense to pursue the rule (in the case of Sam's Club, this means I never acknowledge the receipt checker and make them chase me down.)
I see them more like a construction. Someone presents their view point, and if its not what I see as truth, its not my job to "argue" it, its now OUR job to figure out truth. So the conversation should be a back and forth of explanation until the truth is agreed upon. This does require both participants to be willing to change their viewpoint, which I agree people need to be better at.
Very, very well said. I agree wholeheartedly. "Collaboration, not arguing" is one way I'd phrase it.
I think that mindset is why I get frustrated with people on HN sometimes. If I say something, I'm not necessarily interested in having a high-school debate-club debate over it... I'm interested in finding a shared understanding of the truth and finding the common ground. Not all "discussions" need to be treated as "debates" damnit. :-)
My advice to the author would be to do as I've done with this comment: look for where the other person is coming from and realize that there are reasons people say and do the things they say and do. Then, instead of attacking, approach it as an opportunity for both of you to learn something new by sharing your differing viewpoints and converging on the truth. I'm looking forward to discovering the truth of how best to handle these situations based on the experience provided in by those who may respond to my comment!
Absolutely. I could not agree more.
On a related note, there's an old saying I heard once, that goes something like "Be kind, because everyone is fighting their own battles also". Being considerate and tolerant doesn't cost us anymore than being dick'ish and argumentative, so why not do it?
I think you are on the right track. Positivity and Negativity are useful tools for discovering the truth. Favoring either very strongly has significant downsides.
The problem with Negativity is it can obsess over problems while not doing the harder work of actually coming up with a plausible solution. If a project is truly screwed, then maybe "tell the stakeholders that we need 9 more months instead of 3 (instead of pretending we only need 3 more months for the next 2 months)" might qualify as a positive solution. Or "3 months is obviously wrong. It might take 6. It might take 12. Let's invest 2 days in figuring out where we are immediately."
I don't see people's statements as opportunities to argue, as this quote indicates the author does: "Grow Up and Learn To Argue Like An Adult". I see them more like a construction. Someone presents their view point, and if its not what I see as truth, its not my job to "argue" it, its now OUR job to figure out truth. So the conversation should be a back and forth of explanation until the truth is agreed upon. This does require both participants to be willing to change their viewpoint, which I agree people need to be better at.
In the case of the manager saying people need to have a more positive attitude, my strategy there would be: be willing to entertain the idea and then explore the idea together. As you explore the idea, genuinely bring up concerns you see from your perspective, e.g. "Oh but that will be problematic because we don't have enough time with projects X, Y, and Z going on. If you did mandate this, moral will go down and at best your rating will go down, at worst people may leave." Suddenly the manager is illuminated.
If the individual you're discovering truth with refuses to acknowledge your viewpoint and either accept it or counteract it with knowledge of their own, then you should be concerned about the long term implications of interacting with such an individual. Specifically, people who have difficulty incorporating new information into their model of the world often often lack positive growth trajectory, and likely have problems dealing with change when it inevitably arrives. I'd distance myself.
My advice to the author would be to do as I've done with this comment: look for where the other person is coming from and realize that there are reasons people say and do the things they say and do. Then, instead of attacking, approach it as an opportunity for both of you to learn something new by sharing your differing viewpoints and converging on the truth. I'm looking forward to discovering the truth of how best to handle these situations based on the experience provided in by those who may respond to my comment! :)
As an addendum: sometimes people are immovable from their position due to things outside of their control, but we still must interact with them. The receipt checker at Sam's Club will never be convinced enough of my opinion to act in accordance with it, for example. In this case, we are not at issue with the person, but with the rule. Therefore, I try to act as obliquely to the rule as possible, and encourage others to do so as well so that it no longer makes sense to pursue the rule (in the case of Sam's Club, this means I never acknowledge the receipt checker and make them chase me down.)