I'm not sure what Fab does really, but just looking over the article I came across this gem:
The bit about holding out pay was a joke to get everyone’s attention. It worked.
Did everyone really know that it was a joke? Later on he says...
It was a joke. We have about a thousand jokes just like it. “If you have time to xyz, you have time to get fired.” It’s a joke about staying focused and not getting distracted.
I don't know him, I don't work with him, but I have worked with people like him and they were hated. They thought their jokes were funny. When people are being threatened as a joke, they have a bunch of names they like to call Mr. Funny, but the names aren't as nice as "Mr. Funny"
As a boss, there are at least two things you never joke about: employees getting paid and employees getting fired. It's not worth the risk that there will be one person in the office your humor doesn't land with. And it's not worth the risk that you may not make a payroll and have to do some real layoffs all-too-soon thereafter.
I don't know anything about Fab and didn't read the previous article but I think it unlikely that the CEO of a company can write an accurate blog entry titles 'What It's Really Like To Work At X'
To write such an article a lot of research and talking with staff would have to happen and judging by the jokes in his emails and the tone of the article he hasn't done that and probably should sooner rather than later.
This is a horrible attempt at trying to stifle whatever criticism the original article made.
Repeating "it was a joke" is a childish defense and makes one wonder if management is mature enough to understand that when you, as the boss, send an email with a joke in it like "you might not get paid!", chances are some employees might not get that it's a joke.
Some people tend to think that behavior can't be malicious if you don't intend it to be malicious. This is false.
And this of course isn't even a defense, it's just repeating meaningless aspirational buzzwords. So why even bother?
Claim. [Fab] applies a culture of meticulous control.
Fact. Our employees have an intense amount of freedom within the structure we’ve created to make Fab great.
It's also very obvious you are just playing word games if Bloomberg says "11 executives left" and your response is "well we only had so many C-level departures..."
They made a "joke" in written form "threatening" to not pay people if they didn't submit a picture to the company profile? Smacks of something a thud headed manager like Michael Scott would do.
I don't think those 'jokes' go over as funny as the people that may make them hope. If everything my manager said was jokingly prefixed with 'you might get fired...' well, I'd consider it annoying and not at all a joke. If it's used sparingly, I'd take it seriously. Either way, I'd certainly feel like I'm walking on eggshells at that company. It would not improve morale at said company.
Put it another way - your wife, when you get home always says "You are cheating on me and I know it!" and then plays it off like a joke... this goes on every day... would you find it funny?
What many leaders don't understand is that their words carry the weight of an anvil, even if you're "friends" or a have a David Brent "jokey" office persona.
It's nearly impossible for an employee to tell if a superior is serious or joking, especially if they've been inconsistent in the past. It's anxiety inducing for employees to wonder if they are dealing with "friend boss" or "will I get passed over for a promotion boss" when someone drops by their cubical for some brainstorming.
Even brainstorming can be ambiguously "brainstorming" or "I actually want to see your reaction so I know if I can trust you".
I know all of this because I have made all of these mistakes in the past.
I did not know about this Bloomberg article, but now I do. They could have just let it go, but now it gets to the HN frontpage. What a dumb move
I know folks who work at Fab in non-tech roles and it is indeed a demanding environment with long hours and high turnover. But this is fairly typical of NYC ecommerce startups though...
What if it's not a dumb move? Meaning, what if it's a good thing to be honest with people that working at a startup is hard, that it's emotional, that it's human, that people make mistakes? I think opening up a bit about our culture -- which is hard driving, passionate, etc. isn't a dance in the park and can break some dishes along the way? That's pretty true of all startups.
Are you him? God, you're a fucking moron. Shut the hell up. Your mouth is doing more harm than good. Oh, and quit being an asshole.
"What if it's not a dumb move?" It is, objectively, a dumb move. Clearly. Take a hint. We "Y-Hackers" don't play favorites, and as is clearly evident by the "eating" you're seeing, we actually know how to be hard working, supportive, and breed a culture that isn't rife with subversive fear and subtle intimidation. You're wrong. Admit it. Fix it.
It sounds like it's really awful to work at Fab from his description. His responses show an incredible lack of understanding as to what working for him is really like.
> Claim. A message on Feb. 4 carried the subject header “Do you like getting paid?” Goldberg told employees they were required to have a photo uploaded to the “team” page on Fab.com “in order to be eligible for the next company pay period. No exceptions.”
Fact. We pride ourselves on humor and transparency at Fab. As part of our major relaunch relaunch of our employee pages on Feb 5 we required every employee to be listed publicly. The bit about holding out pay was a joke to get everyone’s attention. It worked.
Reality - This is not a joke, and it is not even remotely funny. He says "It worked." If it was a joke, there wouldn't be any "it worked."
>Claim. An e-mail on Oct. 11 from Shellhammer, who serves as chief design officer, forbids people from modeling Fab’s products. Employees had been inserting themselves into shots of the company’s wares posted on its website. “If you have time to model, you have time to get fired,” Shellhammer wrote.
Fact. It was a joke. We have about a thousand jokes just like it. “If you have time to xyz, you have time to get fired.” It’s a joke about staying focused and not getting distracted.
Reality - This is also not a joke. A boss can't joke about firing his employees. It just isn't possible. Anyone who doesn't realize this isn't somebody most people will have any desire to work for.
Edit: Apparently he also threatened to put a bullet in a former employee's head for potentially leaking something. Clearly this guy has huge issues, and I suspect that the work environment at Fab is incredibly toxic. He isn't doing himself any favors with this post - http://gawker.com/266979/a-bullet-in-your-head
I had a job interview with Fab's CEO once. He impressed the hell out of me - charismatic, strong vision, ambitious - but it was blatantly obvious to both of us that I wasn't a good cultural fit for the company, and that was as far as it went.
Just based on that one interview, I doubt too many people get through Fab's entire hiring process who aren't already a cultural match. I certainly couldn't work there, but some of the things that bother me (mandatory coatracks and clean desks?) they probably consider benefits.
I... don't know if that blog response is going to achieve the goal it was intended to. At the very least, the CEO might spend some more time considering how being the boss affects what is or is not a funny 'joke'.
Indeed. Using "do this or you're fired" to get an employee's attention is disrespectful and manipulative, it's not funny - unless you are Michael Scott.
There have to be more creative ways to assert an important company initiative. Surely there is a more 'Fab' way.
For those of you (like me) who didn't want to read the whole thing. (I got the 'bullet' keyword from a different link that Uperte posted elsewhere and searched for it in the link that the parent posted)
"Goldberg did apparently threaten a female employee, saying he’d put a bullet in her head if he found out she had been part of or leaked a rumor about an executive leaving the company. This employee breaks down crying afterward and shortly thereafter submits her resignation. She is no longer with Jobster. After some prodding, Goldberg apologizes in a company-wide manner, emphasizing that he wouldn’t really put a bullet through someone’s head."
Hi. Jason Goldberg, CEO of Fab here. @betashop. I'm happy to answer any questions you have.
I must say that given my involvement in the Y-Hacker community it saddens me a bit to see you eat one of your own, but that's life I guess.
Is it smart to joke about people getting paid and getting fired? Of course not. Yes, we know that getting fired isn’t the sort of thing to normally joke about. But before haters hate on us, come visit Fab’s offices. We have this thing at Fab called “do your one thing” - the notion that everyone should focus on doing the one thing they are the best at above all other things and that the accumulation of everyone’s one things creates a great organization. No one’s one thing at Fab is to be a professional model.
Hi Jason. It's nice to see that you've taken the time to comment on this submission and answer any questions we have for you.
You acknowledge that it's inappropriate to joke about payment and firing employees, but you continue to do it. I don't see using the Michael Scott-esque excuse of "come visit our offices" as appropriate. Here's my question for you. Do you feel, honestly and completely, that you have not created a toxic work environment in the slightest with your behavior? How are Fab's offices' different than any other startup's?
Hey Jason, I commented more at length on the PandoDaily piece, but I have to say I agree with almost everything you wrote in your post. I think the problem HN and most people have with the "getting fired" jokes is that it creates a subconscious almost gut-wrenching feeling for employees regardless of intent. And even if I'm a top performer hearing someone joke about that just doesn't seem necessary. Hanging your jackets and creating an aesthetic for your office, since it's also a showroom, is perfectly understandable. And if sass and certain kind of jokes are part of the culture, that's great! You filter out those who don't match a hardworking, fun, but no BS atmosphere.
The whole thing reminds me of some mob boss intimidating someone. He makes a "joke" about, oh, breaking their arms, sits there with a straight face for a few seconds. Then he starts laughing, and after a second the other guy laughs too, nervously. Yeah, that joke was hilarious.
I was wondering how he could hire and keep engineers in this market with such a terrible attitude towards employees, but then I looked at the jobs page and saw that all engineering seems to be in India.
And it looks like it works for them! Their product is very nice, which used to be very hard if not impossible to achieve with engineering outsourced to India.
As an American software engineer, this is a bit unsettling.
The bit about holding out pay was a joke to get everyone’s attention. It worked.
It was a joke. We have about a thousand jokes just like it. “If you have time to xyz, you have time to get fired.” It’s a joke about staying focused and not getting distracted.
Saying 'it was a joke' is just a lame-ass excuse for being an insensitive douche bag. Sorry but not sorry.
> It was a joke. We have about a thousand jokes just like it. “If you have time to xyz, you have time to get fired.” It’s a joke about staying focused and not getting distracted.
The irony is strong here, that OP wrote a blog post to defend all their jokes that are meant to keep employees from getting distracted.
The thing about jokes is, they should have an element of truth to them that the audience will pick up on. If you're in a position of power over someone, be honest and straightforward, instead of trying to be clever with your amateur stand-up comedy career.
You still can have a fun work culture without acting like a drunk frat boy.
The bit about holding out pay was a joke to get everyone’s attention. It worked.
Did everyone really know that it was a joke? Later on he says...
It was a joke. We have about a thousand jokes just like it. “If you have time to xyz, you have time to get fired.” It’s a joke about staying focused and not getting distracted.
I don't know him, I don't work with him, but I have worked with people like him and they were hated. They thought their jokes were funny. When people are being threatened as a joke, they have a bunch of names they like to call Mr. Funny, but the names aren't as nice as "Mr. Funny"