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Please come visit Russia without a passport or maybe ask people to come visit US without one. You'll see how fast those guns can become real. They won't even let you out of the country if you don't have a passport, which, of course, only a government can issue.


Guns are necessary only because there exist violent sociopaths who will use force to avoid obeying the rules human society has set down. That you fear them implies you are exactly the kind of person the rules are intended to protect us from.


Why do you want protection from me? I have not given a slightest hint I want to harm anyone in any way and I don't like violence. Why would I fear rules? I fear people who want to randomly enforce those rules, justifying by them anything they want to justify, while themselves avoiding the rules they created for us. Besides, it is exactly high ranking government jobs that attract sociopaths, because it becomes really easy to do anything with very little accountability.


The guns are not to be used against you unless you are violent. You imply you obey laws only because there are men with guns. This indicates you will use violence to avoid obeying laws. That is why I need protection from you.


"The guns are not to be used against you unless you are violent."

Not true. When you are complying because a gun is present, you fear that gun. There for it is being used.

"You imply you obey laws only because there are men with guns. "

Which implies the specific law may be wrong.

"This indicates you will use violence to avoid obeying laws. "

This indicates that you don't believe in opposing unjust laws, and shooting any one who disagrees.

"That is why I need protection from you."

Or from you.


> Which implies the specific law may be wrong.

If you believe it's wrong, work to get it changed through non-violent means.

> This indicates that you don't believe in opposing unjust laws

Using violence to oppose laws perceived by you as unjust is wrong so long as there is a democracy at work. And no, I will not accept the argument that because the majority happens to disagree with you, the democracy must not be working.

> and shooting any one who disagrees.

As far as I can tell, it is you who wants to shoot anyone who tries to enforce a law you don't like. I call that reprehensible and have no sympathy for you.


Resisting a law is non-violent, but often gets a violent response from authorities, with guns. Most existing approved methods to change law simply dont work for most normal people.

Its not as black and white as you think. If a minority is oppressed by a majority, then yes, the democracy is broken. The point of democracy is not legalized mob rule, it MUST protect minorities.

The last bit you just made up.


> Resisting a law is non-violent, but often gets a violent response from authorities, with guns.

People don't always do the right thing, film at 11. That's not a reason to eradicate law enforcement nor government as a whole.

> Most existing approved methods to change law simply dont work for most normal people.

Failure to change a law to suit your own whims is not a failure of the mechanisms. It is your failure to persuade.

> The point of democracy is not legalized mob rule, it MUST protect minorities.

In the end, minorities are only ever protected by consent of the majority. A society whose people do not believe in rule of law cannot and will not effectively protect minorities, no matter the governance structure or what any piece of paper says.

All we can do is try to instill the rule of law, and set up rules and institutions to protect everyone's rights in anticipation that, at any given moment, the majority may wish to treat a minority unjustly. We must then hope that either the majority is persuaded that their hatred does not justify damaging those rules and institutions, or that the majority view changes before it succeeds in punching a hole in them.

> The last bit you just made up.

You made up my alleged desire to shoot people who "resist" laws.


No, I obey some laws because there are men with guns and I obey others because I think it's a good idea to. For instance, I pay taxes or obtain visas to other countries because otherwise officials are going to make my life difficult if I don't do that. On the other hand, I don't steal from or hurt people because I don't like it and consider it immoral.


You're continuing to indicate you would be violent toward those attempting to enforce laws if not for the fact that they could be more violent toward you.

If you're just using guns as a proxy for "someone is telling me what to do and I don't like it", then how about being a little more honest and just saying "I don't want to obey rules I don't like"?


No, I have not indicated it at all. You misread me. No one likes obeying rules they don't like. You're trying to present it as if I'm some kind of an outcast, which I'm not.


Not quite, actually. The US has no passport control upon exit. You are free to leave the country without talking to any government officials.


Interesting. So why did they check mine upon exit? I haven't indicated in any way I'm not a US citizen.


Are you referring to transportation staff who checked your passport to ensure they weren't about to facilitate your illegal entry to another country?


If you leave via commercial airliner the TSA will check to see if the name on your identification (be it a passport, driver's license, or other) matches that on your boarding pass. They don't, however, check to see if you're allowed to leave the country like most other countries do. They've never scanned my passport into a computer like every other country (besides Canada) does.


You don't need a passport to leave the USA.


In theory. In practice, no airline would let you board without a passport when going on an international flight.




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