> So, write javascript to trigger a java applet that changes the dom is a reasonable alternative to writing javascript to change the dom?

Depends on what you mean. These days people often have Applets disabled. But if you have an Applet with the access to do so, you can manipulate the DOM as much from it as you could from JavaScript.

> Yes, it literally does. When presented with one option, you have no choice.

There are lots of options, its just one is better than the others.

>> And there you have it. JavaScript wins by virtue of being a better deployment platform in the browser space

> Are you serious?

Absolutely. People made a go of it with Applets. Once they realized they could get the job done with JavaScript, they dropped Applets like a hot potato, to the point where Applets are being dumped.

Most other in browser programming environments are platforms in their own right that talk to browser platform. JavaScript's platform is the browser, and that turns out to make a big difference.

> Just that javascript sucks and we're stuck with it against our will.

Depends on you who define as "us".

You're going to want to get familiar with "worse is better": http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html

> So, write javascript to trigger a java applet that changes the dom is a reasonable alternative to writing javascript to change the dom?

Actually, I missed one important aspect of what you were saying:

"So, write javascript to trigger a java applet that changes..."

No, there is no requirement for any JavaScript at all. You just use an applet tag (well, these days you use the object tag, but you get the idea...).

>No, there is no requirement for any JavaScript at all.

Yes there is. How else is the applet going to respond to what the user is doing to html elements on the page?

a) You said DOM manipulation b) http://docs.oracle.com/javase/7/docs/jre/api/plugin/dom/org/...

Look. I don't have time to teach you how to code. Let's just assume I know what I'm talking about more than you do.

You really think pulling the "you are too dumb to understand my bullshit" card is effective? Javascript is used to make changes to the dom in response to the user doing things. User clicks button, stuff changes. Have you ever actually tried doing that with a java applet? Have you noticed how 75% of the api doesn't actually work in any major browser?

...and there you go again about lack of support. Have you noticed that Java Applet's just generally aren't supported anymore? We tried it (and yes, all the event handling worked). No one used it and it exacerbated security problems.