Depression is an incredibly insidious disease folks, especially because sufferers normally keep it hidden from others.
Some days you can feel completely fine, have amazing connections with people, love your work, be a completely present and loving parent and spouse. And on really bad days, it feels like the sky has completely collapsed on you and that the only logical thing to do is make the world a better place by leaving it. It may sound silly if you don't suffer, especially when you recognize much of it is brain chemistry, but it is very real to the person experiencing it.
If you know someone who suffers from depression and has communicated to you that they have suicidal thoughts from time-to-time, I strongly recommend that you let them know that you are there for them at any moment when things feel really dark. They can call, text you, get you on the computer, whatever. Things can go downhill extremely rapidly, so if you ever get a 9-1-1 from a sufferer, react immediately. Get to them in person if it's possible or get someone who lives close to get to them, don't stop communicating with them until you do.
And don't try to fix the problem, telling them it's all in their mind. Again, it's all very real. Let them talk, just allow them to express themselves in whatever way it comes from them, it might be sadness, anger, rage, pain. Let them know they are safe to communicate anything with you, even the dark thoughts. I hope none of you have to go through this, but if you do, you might be saving the life of a friend, spouse, child, parent, aunt, uncle, someone many people love dearly.
You keep it hidden because for every 1 person who takes your advice and helps you out there are 5 who will write you off as a serious person for the rest of your life.
Edit: I'm not saying this is right/wrong, but there are real consequences to outing oneself as a depressive.
"You keep it hidden because for every 1 person who takes your advice and helps you out there are 5 who will write you off as a serious person for the rest of your life.
Edit: I'm not saying this is right/wrong, but there are real consequences to outing oneself as a depressive."
What are the consequences? After dealing with OCD and social anxiety issues from 18 to 28, I finally started to open up and talk about these oddities that conflicted me to others. What I learned is most people I talk to all dealt with something similar. These were just random people I met at work, friends and family members. I wish I talked about what conflicted me before I was 28, I would have been able to enjoy that 10 year span of my life more.
What I am saying is don't think you are alone, think you are crazy the one dealing with ocd, social anxieties, depression - the majority has been there and when you learn/realize that we are the same a huge weight is lifted off your shoulders. In other words talk talk talk about your problems, oddities (obessesive thoughts or actions), social anxieties and depressive thoughts until you are blue in the face. If people are going to look down on you for being a depressive screw them, they are hiding behind their own wall of B.S. - no one is perfect and everyone has dealt with something from the above in various degrees before!
This is very sad. Deepest condolences to his family and friends. Really makes the poll that was done only a few days ago more brutally shocking: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=849650
Sometimes it's really difficult to ask for help. Building a support network is one of those paradoxical things... if you don't have one already it makes it even more difficult to build one. And for some people (as it appears in the case of Dan), the saddest thing is that it may not even matter making it worse for those left behind.
There are people (who keep this stuff confidential) to talk to though. You have to pay them and it can be difficult to find one that just doesn't want to blame the past instead of helping you move forward. But these people do exist and are helpful. I suggest finding someone who knows something about cognitive behavioral therapy.
I agree with a sibling comment here that it is vital to talk through these things. If you can't trust your friends, first find someone else to talk to and then find some new friends.
Depression is an incredibly insidious disease folks, especially because sufferers normally keep it hidden from others.
Depressed people don't merely keep it hidden from others; they often develop a coping mechanism of keeping their depression hidden from themselves too.
If you know someone who suffers from depression and has communicated to you that they have suicidal thoughts from time-to-time
The last part of this is the most important part. If someone is depressed and have recognized it then it's very important to provide whatever help you can. But it's also important to not intrude prior to that point; otherwise you risk forcing them to confront their depression before they're ready to do so (not to mention alienating them).
I second that. The only two people I have known who died by their own hand were both incredibly radiant, ebullient individuals. Nobody saw it coming either time. For some, the higher the highs, the lower the lows, it seems.
One of the truly insidious things about depression is that the sufferer often knows that it's just brain chemistry, that it's just "all in their head". That doesn't help.
Depression is not a sign of personal weakness, misguided thinking, or flawed character. It's a medical condition, like diabetes or glaucoma. There shouldn't be any moral judgement attached.
There's still a hell of a lot that we don't know about depression. However, there are treatments that help. If you suffer from depression, one of the best things you can do is to find a psychiatrist (an honest-to-god M.D.) that you can trust and work with.
And if you know someone that suffers from depression, bprater is absolutely correct. 100%. Offering someone that kind of support may be more important than you know.
Thanks for those words. I don't know at what point a person actually goes through with suicidal thoughts. I suspect they don't either. If you even suspect someone has them, pay attention, be a friend even if you do not know them well and let them know you will not let them out of your sight until they are over this period in their lives.
Most of all, don't beat yourself up about this - there was nothing you could have done to have stopped it, and he did what he wanted to do for his own reasons.
When people don't mention the reason for a death in an announcement, I've always thought: "Why? Why keep it a secret? They're gone now anyway." I think I've just realized why.
I can't say anything else other than that I'm sorry for all of your losses and I hope you do his dream proud.
There doesn't have to be a reason. Sometimes it might just work like an aneurysm. Nothing detectably wrong. It's nobody's fault and there's no narrative for it. The wrong set of things happens inside of you, you were fine, and then you're not.
I've been through this; never as close as Tom to Dan, but close; and that's what helped me make sense of it. Sometimes it's just a sudden illness, and sudden illnesses are tragic but they happen.
Yeah, there's a lot of questions and wonder about how someone like Dan, who just... seemed fine and happy (perhaps on the outside), could bring himself to make such a terrible and extreme choice.
It's a puzzle that, despite my only knowing him personally to a limited degree, that I may never understand.
The kind of person that is involved in a startup is typically smart enough to be able to hide the symptoms of depression. These are people who are used to achieving great things and so hiding vulnerabilities is something they get very good at.
My thoughts and condolences go out to you and the people affected by this tragedy.
Unfortunately, the way I found him pretty much rules that out. I'm foregoing description to be kind to family and friends, but it wasn't something you accidently do. A couple minor things he did directly beforehand which would seem completely innocuous to everybody but me also gives me confidence in the conclusion.
A few years ago a very close friend of mine killed himself. Reading this today has brought up a lot of old feelings, and one new one; I feel like I really need to reach out and tell you that what you're going through and what you're about to go through will be very difficult, but you will come out the other side.
Suicide is one of those things that I don't think we can ever reconcile in our minds. I've never resolved the questions raised up by my friend's death, but I promise that you do learn to find a quiet place for the feelings that I'd imagine have you mentally turning in dizzy circles right now.
My thoughts are with you. If you'd like to talk please don't hesitate to get in touch.
Suicide is one of those things that I don't think we can ever reconcile in our minds. ... You do learn to find a quiet place for the feelings
I second this. A close friend killed herself 15 years ago, and I still think of her, probably at least once a month, and mourn her, and wonder what her life would be like if she were still alive. But that remembrance comes from a quiet place, certainly much quieter than in the months surrounding the event. It doesn't stop, but it does change.
I didn't realize until seeing this that you were the person who found him. Please don't be afraid to seek counselling if you have flashbacks / nightmares / difficulty sleeping / etc -- post-traumatic stress disorder is very commonly experienced by those who find suicide victims.
Maybe its just me, but there seems to be a stigma regarding the act of seeking counseling. However, people should seek counseling just as often as they would a general practitioner as the mind needs just as much care to stay healthy as does the body. In any case, it's immensely gratifying to have someone who you know will not feel burdened by your issues and can offer you guidance through a very troublesome period of life.
That sounds pretty traumatic and I am incredibly impressed that you have the wherewithal to handle the community relations part after that.
That said it is probably a good idea to really get to the bottom of your feelings about it once you get a little breathing room. I mean don't try to 'just push through' and bury yourself in work in order to suppress grief.
My God. I'm not going to parrot the "seek counselling" line because I don't think that is necessary.
What I would ask you to do though is to keep talking about it, as much as you can with people you trust. It'll help your healing. Whatever you do, share your feelings with someone.
There's almost no possibility it was accidental. I know it's impossible to stomach and the mind has the find a pattern or assign a reason when facts seem to "not add up".
Everyone wants to ask these questions, so I don't fault you for asking.
Leaving a suicide note is supposedly a lot less common than our popular belief (from movies or books that depict fictional suicide situations) tell us...
Suicidal people usually do not exhibit much abnormal behavior for strangers to get the idea. There is little strangers can do, anyway. Even professionals can only help when the person genuinely wants to be helped. This is sad, but this is life.
That's really sad news. If you can, posting any warning signs you can recognize after the fact might help other people identify when one of their co-founders might be at risk.
In a bout of major depression, creativity is just lost. The feeling that I will never get it back was a main source feeding suicidal thinking. Luckily, I sought treatment, and an analyst told me that this is normal, that it's part of the illness, and that basically nobody can be creative while being clinically depressed (yes, I was in a clinic at that time). That helped, at least a little.
I'm fighting, and I'm slowly getting it back. But it's hard.
In the greater context of start-ups and the pressures associated with that, it's not just 'young kids dying', it is 'young kids working on start-ups dying'. I realize that some people are of a mindset where 'failure is not an option', and this in and of itself brings some risks with it.
No clue what the factors are in this particular case beyond what's in this thread but I've seen people literally break because of the strain a start-up put on their lives.
Working past what your body can normally do and taking on mental burdens past what you could cope with under normal circumstances (huge responsibilities) is not going to be without its consequences.
Again no idea how much of that was a factor here, but I really think that those that get into the game should be very much aware of the pressure and should be able to somehow get rid of that and always remember that even though your start-up is important it is never more important than you and your health.
I'm not sure it's fair to point to a trend from a sample set of one. The other guy was killed in a car crash; it'd be pretty hard to peg that to being part of a startup.
how did he die, if you don't mind me asking?