> It's very rare that you see acquisitions work out like this
The acquisition was a normal acquisition.
What made it special was the DOJ stepping in to destroy Microsoft because Bill Gates was essentially too rich and his riches were so talked about that people in DC wanted to show him who's the alpha.
Apple would have gone to zero without Microsoft essentially saving it from bankruptcy, and it would be irrelevant had the DOJ not attacked Microsoft with such vigor.
> DOJ stepping in to destroy Microsoft because Bill Gates was essentially too rich..
That is revisionist. Microsoft got a slap on the wrist. I don't think this gave Apple any tangible benefit. Microsoft's investment was also insignificant. The only thing that really mattered was Microsoft's commitment to continue delivering MS Office for Mac OS. That was a big deal. MS got benefit from Explorer on Mac and for the continued "competition" from Apple to reduce antitrust accusations.
Spot on. Apple got desperately needed money from the Microsoft investment and more importantly it was a sign that the platform wasn’t “dead“. As Apple had been shrinking big developers had been abandoning the platform. If Microsoft were to stop making office for it it may have killed it.
That investment and commitment helped Apple keep going long enough to get out of the bind it was in.
Microsoft gave small users everywhere a free license to use the best GUI OS in the world. Not to mention the browser and the productivity tools
It has always been a free software , unless you are really dedicated and want to pay for it.
It was a really elegant solution, the degree to which you paid for Microsoft products ranged based on each individual user willingness to "look around" for free pirated copies.
And over at Redmond they'd take notice and push the bill onto paying customers such as the Fortune 500 (Exxon, BP, JPMorgan)
If there is one company that the public should love is Microsoft.
> If there is one company that the public should love is Microsoft
Microsoft was a monopolistic and mediocre behemoth in the 90s. We’re lucky computing survived its grip. Mostly due to the open web, which is sadly under severe attack.
> Microsoft gave small users everywhere a free license to use the best GUI OS in the world. Not to mention the browser and the productivity tools
> It has always been a free software , unless you are really dedicated and want to pay for it.
The only way I can see for this claim to have any connection to reality is if you are talking about piracy. Yes, Microsoft kind of turned a blind eye to pirates if they stayed small-scale enough. Yes, it was still illegal, and you were still (at least theoretically) running the risk of legal trouble.
If you weren't talking about piracy, then you are simply wrong. Microsoft was never free. (You may have been paying it bundled into the price of a new computer, but it wasn't free.) This goes all the way back to the beginning - see Bill Gates' letter to the hobbyists who were taking a "free license" to MicroSoft BASIC back in the 1970s.
> ... because Bill Gates was essentially too rich and his riches were so talked about that people in DC wanted to show him who's the alpha.
That's totally not how that happened. Microsoft was doing things that were legitimately anti-competitive, and legitimately against the law. That got proven, and Microsoft's best option was to take the consent decree rather than flat-out lose and let the DOJ have a free hand to write the rules going forward.
So the fact that I can steal a Samsung TV from Best Buy means that Samsung TVs are free and therefore it’s impossible for them to be committing antitrust violations against Sony and Visio?
Yes. As part of the deal Apple was required to include Internet Explorer on Macs (for some amount of time). IE 5 and 5.5 on the Mac were actually very good browsers.
But Apple was not prohibited from including other browsers as well. For example, years later, Safari.
In any event it was state intervention. When that happens the victory/defeat of a company becomes political , not technical or due to financial or business acumen.
The worst thing is that the majority of the American population would have not found themselves competing against Bill Gates for anything, except those in DC who had him as their #1 enemy in order to win their size measuring contest.
Matter of fact the small individual consumer and small businesses were getting away robbing Microsoft blind as they didn't do anything to stop piracy.
Microsoft would just treat it as free marketing or just pass those losses onto big paying customers such as the Fortune 500 companies, thus compensating for piracy losses at the base of the pyramid.
After DOJ intervention nowadays we have Apple shipping a 1700$ phone which is completely closed off and out of the box is impossible to charge while listening to music at the same time. Irony if you think about how passionate Jobs was about music
> In any event it was state intervention. When that happens the victory/defeat of a company becomes political , not technical or due to financial or business acumen.
Microsoft didn't win on technical merit, they were winning because they were aggressively anti-competitive.
Give away your product for free. Now it’s practically impossible for your competitors to sell enough to keep going when there’s a free product out there.
Anti trust laws were made to protect consumers, not paper-millionaires shareholders of other compenies.
There wasn't an organic hatred against Microsoft, people were teaching courses on how to create a startup aimed at getting acquired by them and retire early.
It was a DC play from people who knew nothing about software but were jelous of what they were reading on Fortune and Forbes.
> Anti trust laws were made to protect consumers, not paper-millionaires shareholders of other compenies.
And consumers were harmed by one company controlling 97% of the desktop market, when its would-have-been competitors had better product but couldn't compete because it cheated.
> And consumers were harmed by one company controlling 97% of the desktop market
When the 97% is potentially all free, then I don't where's the monopoly, unless you also include in the definition of monopoly having a special place in people's hearts after you gave them such gift.
People made a choice to pay for convenience, but if you looked around you'd find ways to get Microsoft products for free.
But it’s NOT free. You keep repeating that, but I’m not sure why.
Are you saying that because people didn’t have to buy Windows for their computers since it was included?
They paid in directly. You’d buy your computer for $2000 and Microsoft would get $350 (or whatever). Because of the price Microsoft charged, the price of your computer with artificially high. Because of Microsoft agreements with computer makers, you couldn’t choose NOT to buy Windows. So you had to pay the money. Since you had to buy Windows, there was no price competition.
Even after the antitrust settlement this was still a problem. Remember when netbooks were the fad? Well it’s really hard to sell a $500 laptop that’s good if you’re required to pay Microsoft $250 for Windows. That’s why we actually saw ones that shipped with Lenox. In competition, Microsoft released a cut down version of Windows that was limited that they charged less for.
What do you know, competition worked. That couldn’t happen before the settlement.
By choking out your competitors, since the true cost isn't free. For instance, demanding that OEMs only ship Windows, thus cornering the market, while still charging them (what, you really thought MS was giving their OS away for free, just because the OEM didn't show you the line item?).
> After DOJ intervention nowadays we have Apple shipping a 1700$ phone which is completely closed off and out of the box is impossible to charge while listening to music at the same time.
Even the base model iPhone SE ($399) has an external speaker, bluetooth, and airplay, all of which are capable of playing music while charging at the same time.
What a strange complaint to make, and it’s even stranger to tie it to your even stranger take on the DOJ and Microsoft.
> What a strange complaint to make, and it’s even stranger to tie it to your even stranger take on the DOJ and Microsoft.
Had the DOJ not attacked Microsoft we'd have a better, more open phone which would also come out of the box with the ability to play music while charging.
iPhones made in 2012 were only barely better than Pocket PCs made in 2005
Had the DOJ not attacked Microsoft, we would have had a more open future? That's... let's just call that a minority opinion, unsupported by the available evidence.
I used it. Everything from the original version that came on little tiny palmtops (Windows CE) to the near final version on things like the compact iPaq.
As a geek I found it interesting, but realistically it sucked.
It was eventually available on some of the early smart phones. It had its chance. It failed. Microsoft kept reinventing it trying to fix it, and it never worked. People preferred the “inferior“ PalmOS.
There’s a reason the iPhone came in and ate everyone’s lunch.
Microsoft had a chance. They were competing. They made changes. They rewrote the UI numerous times. They lost. BAD.
The idea that the Pocket PC was better than the iPhone is demonstrably, by sales, wrong.
The idea that the Pocket PC failed somehow because of the Microsoft antitrust settlement with the government… I don’t understand that one.
> That you continue to repeat this, despite it being clearly disproven above, is telling.
Where are the airpods? Not even the last model, even 2017 Airpods.. you know just to provide some aftercare to the customer after screwing them so badly
“Better” is definitely relative to your needs. For most consumers, iPhones in 2007 were easier to use, with a responsive touch interface and (for the time) huge screen.
What exactly are you talking about? My iPhone 13 is simultaneously charging and playing music right this second - while writing this post. Do at least try to keep things rooted in fact, despite your emotions.
I think there's a point there about what comes in the box. If this is your first iPhone, your first Bluetooth-capable device, yes, you're stuck with awkward compromises without spending more money.
Still, for most people it's not their first such device, so they already typically have their own infrastructure of chargers and BT headsets etc.
Apple has certainly slimmed down what comes with an iPhone, but from the cheapest single port iPhone to the most expensive, they all can charge and play music at the same time without spending or acquiring anything else.
If you catch covid but don't feel it, then you'll go back to normal without ever testing and thus ever knowing you had it.
If this happens for many people in a country (because of whatever reason) then you could easily have 50-100x the recorded numbers but nobody would ever feel it.
You've repeated this incoherent point multiple times in multiple threads now, and I would very much like to know what phone can't charge and listen to music on at the same time.
It surely is not the iPhone, which you were disparaging in one of the other threads, because I'm doing it right now.
It's just a normal bank wire to his most loyal business partner: The US Federal Government.
Uncle Sam would wire him back in FY2022 in the form of subsidies, tax breaks and all sort of artificial economics so that he'd be able to design yet more ugly cars which suddenly accelerate or drive into lorries.
I'd rather work remotely for a US company and move my ass somwhere like Brazil or Nigeria or Philippines or Thailand.
You'd maybe feel the boredom and the lack of power in the decision making and the shame of having to report and reply "yessir" .
But once you clock out you can then be the boss of the hood and recoup all frustration accumulated during worktime, throw the weight of the mighty USD around, which is even more exacerbated by the tech salary as well as the possibility to invest every excess in the S&P500 so that you can keep on keeping on.
The west has essentially very few people (and diminishing by the day) and each and everyone of them have a telegraph pole up their you know what. It should only be used as the money making app
> The west has essentially very few people (and diminishing by the day) and each and everyone of them have a telegraph pole up their you know what. It should only be used as the money making app
The so-called West is slowly starting to de-populate. I believe the parent is suggesting the hyper connectedness + affluence of the West should be taken advantage of to make money, while / for however long it exists in the present lucrative condition.
Just like you have the dating app or the mail app on your phone.
The west is the money making and business app. Strictly business, don't even call or seek people for reasons which aren't business or money making.
Social relationships and genral life outside work app is Africa and South East Asia. Unlike the west they have loads and loads of people who are not spoiled by abundance vis-a-vis the west which has very few people and all with a telegraph pole up their as*hole.
Breathtaking nature accessible for days on end for the price of a burger in Manhattan
Wouldn’t it be extremely difficult to throw away all your friendships and relationships and move like that? Iirc studies show spending quality time with friends is a key component to happiness
> Hopefully we can then compare COVID to the season flu on any large media outlet
It will never happen, humans take more and more to recover from traumatic events and people who claim that it's time to put the traumatic event behind our back and go on with our lives are singled out as irresponsible .
See the 2008 financial crisis, we are still doing QE, Fed balance sheet would never go back to normal , we have scam companies worth hundreds of billions and perhaps the most scammy one just went above a trillion in financial value with no real tangible product presence in a market in which commands a 1% presence.
I guess it depends on the person, but this doesn't square with what I see, and I live in what's considered a very liberal area with relatively strict mandates. People are going to bars & clubs, eating out, holiday shopping, etc. Even people who are being more cautious right now are itching to get out and do stuff. I think we'll recover just fine.
If you buy a jpg for 300k while you could have bought a nice house with that amount of money, you are honestly unfuckable and being unfuckable and gullible is all that you are signalling.
Besides, it's women who do the signaling, that's because they can't approach to save their lives.
NFT crowd should grow some balls, approach, get rejected and repeat until success...like real men do, instead of buying monkey jpg to "signal mating"
That's right! Innovation is what propels human civilization, it can't ever be a bubble.
As it's demonstrated by Cisco Systems stock performance from 1995 to 2010 you can clearly see that the power of innova...never mind....as I was saying if you take into consideration the same period and watch the Nasdaq.....again never mind, but if you.....
The acquisition was a normal acquisition.
What made it special was the DOJ stepping in to destroy Microsoft because Bill Gates was essentially too rich and his riches were so talked about that people in DC wanted to show him who's the alpha.
Apple would have gone to zero without Microsoft essentially saving it from bankruptcy, and it would be irrelevant had the DOJ not attacked Microsoft with such vigor.