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I'm guessing you're employed and your salary is guaranteed regardless. Would you have the same outlook if you were the self-employed founder of an online business and every minute of outage was costing you money?


What are you paying in order to be down?

Even if you were making a million a minute, typically, it still didn't cost you a thing, nor have you lost anything.

You're not making as much, sure, but neither a cost, nor a loss.


If you're an event organizer whose big event is in two days, for example, then every minute your website's down translates to people not paying to attend your paid event. Bonus points because as event managers know, people often wait until 2 days before the event to subscribe for good. Bonus points if you knew this and therefore ran a costly email campaign just before the outage, a campaign that is now sitting at a near-0% click rate.

Don't ask me how I know.


For businesses whose profit margins are already slim, which is most traditional businesses trading online, making less money than they usually would will put them into the red, and even for those that are still in profit, making less money than you usually would means you have less money to pay the expenses that you usually do, expenses that are predicated on you making a certain amount of revenue.


your house isn't going into foreclosure because your shop went down for a day.


You're living in a bubble. I know enough people who live paycheck to paycheck and always have exactly $0 in their pocket before the end of the month. It's pretty normal in some parts of the world, maybe even most of them.


That's a weirdly flippant response to what's a serious issue, but I'll give it the courtesy of a reply anyway - maybe not, but a business not making enough profit might go under, or they might only have to fire someone to prevent that from happening.


any brick and mortar store can have an outage, sometimes multiple days when they repave the streets or have a utility outage. You are white-knighting for imaginary victims of imaginary tragedies. thats weird


I mean, you don't really know that, do you?

Maybe Tuesdays tend to be a big day for me, and instead of "down for a day", it's "lose almost a quarter of my income for the month".

Cloudflare is pretty pervasive, there are all kinds of people and businesses, in all kinds of situations, impacted by this.


You can make any leaps of logic into chaos theory. hell, maybe a fully-occupied orphanage will burn down because of some percolation of events that wouldn't have occurred had CloudFlare kept running. Maybe the next genocidal leader was conceived at the precise moment because CloudFlare was down and his parents used the time to make whoopie?


So standing soldiers of the occupying army taken from a military kibbutz mere miles from the world's largest open air concentration camp? Hind al-Rajab was 6 years old and was found with hundreds of bullets inside her body. This is not a game Israel can afford to play, so let's just rewind to the beginning and ask how many the Irgun and Haganah killed and bombed to strong-arm the British into giving them Palestine? Or we can skip ahead a few decades and start here: https://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and.... It's almost like Europeans have no business occupying the Middle East.


False. Eden was bartending at a music festival when she was taken. She was not taken from a military base.

Kfir Bibas was 9 months old when he was taken and Ariel Bibas was 4 years old when he was taken. Neither had been in the military. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_and_killing_of_the_...


Fair enough, that particular kibbutz is not military, but most in the vicinity around Gaza were, and as I'm sure you know, the killed hostages along with most adult Israelis were either serving or former members of the IDF, the army of the occupying state that was formed by the merging of the Irgun and Haganah and still shares much of the same people and ideologies.

Yes, both of those kids were killed by Israel as clearly stated in your link, along with many others, because Netanyahu preferred carpet bombing as many Gazans as possible and didn't care whether it included hostages.


The defense of murder, rape, Holocaust denial, blood libels -- all grist for the Bitchat for Gaza and HN mill. Man, what a tidal wave of antisemitism we're experiencing.


Yes, antisemitism, in the same way it was anti-Americanism for the Viet Cong to resist the American occupation of Vietnam and that famous terrorist Mandela to resist apartheid South Africa. Desperate people who have heinous things done on them for 70 years do desperate, heinous things, and no-one is more desperate and more wronged than the Palestinians. Again, 70 years. It's almost like Europeans don't belong in the Middle East. Remind me what Netanyahu's real name is again? Also, since I'm sure you wouldn't want to be intellectually dishonest, I'm sure you no doubt equally agree that any criticism of Saudi Arabia, if it were doing anything remotely as heinous as Israel has for the last 70 years, would be Islamophobia, right? Right?


Thing is, that motivation doesn't make the heinous acts any less heinous.

When Viet Kong tortured and executed civilians who happened to be opposed to their ideology, that was wrong.

When South African revolutionaries bombed churches, that was wrong.

We should absolutely be holding Israel to account for all its crimes, but that does not imply whitewashing Hamas.


Is that what you see happening? Because I see most Western powers continuing to fund and enable Israel to act with impunity while reserving their harshest criticism for Hamas - the resistance movement set up in 1984, 40 years after Israel invaded Palestine, by the children who had grown up knowing nothing else. An occupier does not get to set the terms of how a desperate occupied people resist, least of all after 80 years, which was a lot longer than Vietnam lasted, and is much worse than South African apartheid. There's a reason Mandela was vehemently pro-Palestine. We can talk about how Hamas and the Palestinian people chose to resist their occupiers and hold them accountable for their relatively benign crimes once the occupation is ended. Right now, Westerners can't even admit that occupation exists, so we're nowhere near that, and virtually any criticism of Hamas is actually an attempt at deflection and maintaining the status quo of the last 80 years.


I'm not a "Western power". I am a person, and as such I am entitled to make my own personal judgments on ethical matters.

(But, yes, what Israel is doing is occupation, and most Western countries are explicitly or implicitly supporting it, including materially. And that is also wrong.)


I'm really interested in your reasoning, specifically this part:

> It's almost like Europeans don't belong in the Middle East.

What is "European" in this case and where do they belong? Do we measure by skin tone, genetics or language? What about birth place?

Wherever and whoever you are, your ancestors have definitely killed to be there, which lead you to being here somewhere.

So, where do we send white people? Can we do the same for asians/christians/arabs/blacks/people with glasses? And most important, what do we do with mixed heritage people? How pure must the blood be to consider them of some certain "race"?


Europeans are people, then and now, whose families have lived in European lands for hundreds of years, but believe they have the biblical right to "return" to a land they have no connection to and "settle on" (steal) the land and houses of Palestinians whose families have lived in those lands for almost a thousand years. This is common sense, and you know full well you would never entertain such a claim from a holy book of any other religion. No amount of semantic games and moving the goalposts changes this fact, or the fact that most "returning" Israelis were European Jews who changed their names to conceal that fact.


Odd that you talk about concentration camps when the George Washington of Palestinian nationalism collaborated with Hitler and help recruit Muslim SS troops in order to commit actual genocide.

"In 1941, Haj Amin al-Husseini fled to Germany and met with Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Joachim Von Ribbentrop and other Nazi leaders. He wanted to persuade them to extend the Nazis’ anti-Jewish program to the Arab world." -- https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-mufti-and-the-f-uum....

Projection is an interesting phenomena.


You're right, that historical event of WWII involving at most 20,000 Arabs absolutely gave Europeans the right to occupy a land they have no link to and conduct a genocide killing hundreds of thousands and ethnically cleansing millions more. Wait, were the Irgun and Haganah time travellers who predicted this historical event? Is that why they started moving towards their goals of Zionist occupation, colonialism and terrorism in the 19th century?

What about this, does this make the Zionists anti-semitic too? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement It's almost like Zionists are closer in ideology to the Nazis than they want to admit.


"Palestinian" is an antisemitic construct invoked in an attempt to destroy the Jewish homeland.


Sure it is, the people that had been living there - Muslim, Jew and Christian - for almost a thousand years in relative harmony never actually existed and had no name or identidy whatsoever until Israel arrived in 1948 to give them one.


Or worse, shipped to Guantanamo Bay/Bagram Prison, where the US can do whatever they want even to US citizens because they're no longer in US jurisdiction.


At least, not without the Palestinians being virtually wiped out, cause that's how long we'll be waiting for Israel to do the right thing. We don't even know for sure how many are dead, but the vast majority of deaths during genocides are counted after it's over, least of all when there's so much rubble and so many whole families have been wiped out.


What part don't you understand? EVERYONE is Hamas, including the several kids that Western doctors have testified to being hit by snipers, and the little girl named Hind Rajab that they shot 300 bullets into. And the hospitals? Crawling with Hamas.


The answer is simple - racism, same reason the Brits gave them the land in the first place when they knew it already had brown people on it that had been living there for almost a thousand years. How many deaths did it take for most Westerners and Western governments to start caring about Ukraine and start moving towards action? Barely a handful if any. How many deaths has Israel racked up since 1948 while the self-appointed human rights arbiters of the world wring their hands and say it's just not quite genocide yet?


Unrelated, I knew I recognised that name, thank you for everything you do, I've made a few commits to T4P myself in the last few months and can't imagine the regular work that must go into it.


Yes, it was so lawful that the Irgun had to bomb the British and Palestinians to lawfully convince them to hand it to them.


If you think that figure is remotely accurate despite the fact Israel has decimated all hospitals, leveled entire areas, wiped out entire families and is starving those that are still alive to do the counting, you're being naive, and that's a generous interpretation. Once Israel finally allow the UN in, that figure is going up by a factor of at least 2 or 3. The true cost of most genocides are only counted years after it's over, when it's too late.


I disagree that we shouldn't give them their props when companies finally give in, because most are still not doing that (see Project Nimbus). The problem here is that we don't even know they have done the bare minimum yet, since this is only one contract and to my knowledge they have several, including still actively working with the IDF.


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