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>easy to keep the whole language in your head

Is that not all programming languages. Practically have identical syntax for the problem they are solving. The thing which differs is “standard” libraries, which is not part of the language but a side effect of.


Python:

- functions

- classes

- list comprehensions

- generators

- inheritance

- operators

- string interpolation (a handful of syntaxes)

- module system hard to wrap your head around

- async (I think async is a workaround for getting more done with one thread because of the GIL). Pointless on machines with increasing number of cores. Just get multithreading right (and I want to learn Clojure's model - focusing on immutability) and you will not need async. Python can barely share memory across threads. I'm not sure you can get by without serialization.


- dozens of built-in functions/reserved words


My head didn't have enough space to keep C++ in it. Clojure is on the different end of the spectrum


My last job was mostly C++, my current job is mostly Clojure but I still do a lot of C++ stuff on the side as it is appropriate for some of my side projects.

Clojure is so much nicer to work with and this really resonates with me; I'm always still having to check language docs for C++ stuff but only very rarely for Clojure. Being able to keep almost all of it in my head is a huge benefit as I don't have to break my "flow" nearly as much.


Python, Java, JavaScript, R are all insanely complicated compared to clojure.


>artificial lisp superiority syndrome

I giggled at this. Regularly, and in this thread, whenever some DSL req or LISP is mentioned you get these holier than thou comments about how LISP is the best thing since sliced tomatoes.. similarly with diehard vim/emacs users.


Also, regularly, on almost every post mentioning Clojure, there's at least one person who comes with some emotionally charged, unsubstantiated anecdotes, ranting about how bad it is.

"I tried looking at Clojure code once, around 2015, and I wish I went blind..."

They can't live knowing that many people enjoy writing Clojure. This dystopian world makes them feel really sad. "These schmucks don't even know how miserable their days are. I need to tell them that they are so damn wrong, and maybe I can heal their heresy and fallacious excitement..."

People get excited about Clojure not because it has a cool logo or because of Rich Hickey's terrific hairstyle. There are many good, objective reasons why they like it and prefer it to other tools. Because of those objective reasons, Clojure is used in big corporations and small startups.

Usually, there's nothing wrong with excitement about a good tool you like. Almost always, everything is wrong with hating a tool and hating people who like it.


Not every engineer is subject to learned helplessness. Some engineers never gave up on finding better tools, and have done just that.


Tyre manufacturing very much is not “non-tech”…


I suspect they mean from use cases that aren't so centered around software for its own sake. Use cases where the rubber meets the road, as it were.


Yep, "tech" and "engineer" regularly used (also on HN) to mean software/information technology and programmer/developer respectively.

Not very accurate use at all, the whole sector has actually more a social science than a hard sciences bend. Information is a very culturally defined concept and the silicon tech and the true white coat engineers designing and making chips a very small fraction of what happens (or gets discussed).

This is probably title inflation that makes people feel better. The same dynamic that created "Data Science" to mean data cleaning, and AI to mean statistical fitting. But in Rome like the Romans :-)


Joke aside, yeah, hearing about interesting tech being used outside of breathless, infinitely scalable, VC funded tech bubble companies is usually quite compelling


Like your namesake for instance :-)

I started a company that deals primarily with "cyber-physical systems" use cases in-part because I ceased to find anything remotely resembling "software for its own sake" to be compelling anymore (in an existential sense).

Also, if you do happen to work in solar farm tech, I'd love to chat. nathan@auxon.io


I don't think he means that literally zero technology is used in tire manufacturing. What he's saying is that it's interesting to see these languages and concepts applied to old economy industries, which tire manufacturing certainly is.


>50% hit rate

As in, they are either correct or they are not…


Faulty way of seeing it. Like saying the sun has 50% chance of rising tomorrow as it either does rise or it does not.


Now you’re getting it!


That's the thing about Steph Curry and me both taking 3s. Either it goes in or out. 50% chance. Signing up for the Warriors next week.


What industry are you in? I’ve never found a need for it (probably quite rightly just writing crud apps…)


I'm in B2B manufacturing. We are abusing Excel no one should use it for what we do.

We have a spreadsheet that takes information from online orders into input cells. Then it has lines that if they calculate a qty of 1 or greater get consumed by CAM software. The product then gets sent to the appropriate machining center. Not a single line of VB. There are a few things that I could extract into custom formulas that would remove pages and pages of Excel formulas. However the entire point of the Excel setup is so that product experts not programmers can edit them.

We currently have F# in our internal tools. We have a couple of CRUD apps on the SAFE stack. A few ETL tasks in F#. The bug count seems to be much lower when using F#.

There is some legacy stuff in PHP, JAVA and C#.

Then we have an online store in C# but that is just using an open source tool NopCommerce. I couldn't recommend that highly enough. It has been amazing compared to everything I've worked with in the past.


I was expecting you to say finance where Excel is abused in a similar fashion!


Have you ever used F# in production?


Not in the sense you probably mean, but I have performed three or four analyses when I worked at an engineering firm (entertainment - structural, mechanical) in F#. One involved an FSI system (Fluid-Solid Interaction using Project Chronos in C++) that I used F# for the mathy parts before the simulation. I also used F# to munge failure data and perform a Weibul analysis and generate a report for ride equipment. I have not used F# at all for web stuff. I typically reach for Mathematica (tried Julia, love it, but Mathematica's all-in-one notebook with curated data is hard to beat when you are doing something ecelctic and don't want to lose the flow of trying to pull in a data source or search for a library). I wish F# had more presence in the scientific community. It's very simple compared with Haskell, less verbose than C#, and it has the entire .Net ecosystem to draw on.


Or more succinctly “its difficult to imagine a 3d scene” which is what the fucking article is about you pompous twat.


We've banned this account for breaking the site guidelines and ignoring our requests to stop. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


So, just curious…

Why the hate?


Who is this targeting besides the 100 or so hackernews commenters who will actually go through and buy it. Why would I buy this over a lenovo for instance.

Okay so privacy nuts who think that removing their webcam and microphone protects from the perceived spyware that is next to them on their desk in the form of an iPhone.

I see nothing good about this. Inexperienced company, inexperienced in manufacturing and hardware design.


It’s one of the only laptops that ship with core boot, Fully up-to-date with upstream commits to work flawlessly with their hardware. Their support has been extremely helpful, and the build quality is amazing. Fully custom hardware, which is extremely rare for Linux computers. I am just a happy customer, no other affiliation.


Where are you buying laptops (your grandma’s acer doesn’t count but even so…) where it does that “flawlessly” work with its hardware?

Just becoming a fetish at this point.


Sadly, when it comes to Linux compatibility on laptops, "flawless" hardware compatibility is still an extremely rare exception (and even pre-installed and Linux certified laptop models like Dell XPS DE, or Lenovo ThinkPads can have long-standing issues).


> Okay so privacy nuts who think that removing their webcam and microphone protects from the perceived spyware that is next to them on their desk in the form of an iPhone.

Not sure about your work, but in my field pretty much every person I know who works in industry has their camera taped over. I believe for lots of them this is actually company policy.


Partial agree on the privacy thing. It does make me feel better not to have an eye always pointed towards me no matter what I'm doing, so I do see value in being able to disable it physically. However, being paranoid enough to want to physically remove the webcam is an entirely different ball game than having a webcam cover and silently doing your thing, so I assume that everyone agrees that this is just a marketing gimmick. For the mic, I can see the argument that putting your phone away is easier than not having any sort of modern computing device around when you want to not be recorded, and so that could be useful for some people (but I agree: a very limited number). You might also consider that people currently don't take these privacy steps because it's inconvenient. If it were as easy as flipping a switch, maybe people would use it after all. Having the option isn't bad.

> Why would I buy this over a lenovo for instance.

Lenovo tells you to install Windows when there is any doubt that it's a software issue, and of course that's an easy doubt to cast. There is no support tier that will support Linux, let alone coreboot. Want to apply firmware updates? Again, get yourself a Microsoft license. At least, that's what I hear from colleagues, I don't have a Lenovo currently.

Also, competition. I'm not sure how many other modern laptops still have 5 USB ports, especially when considering the large 85 Wh battery and the gimmicky screen you get (in case anyone cares about >60 Hz or 4k at 16"). It does seem like a rare combo and not a bad one.


actually agree. Also considering their "kill switch" marketing. Who needs to turn their internet off on a whim who doesn't already have some sort of keybind to do this? Why buy this over framework / other laptop for 25% more money. Don't really understand


My ThinkPad has a physical switch for airplane mode. There's a big difference between "turning off" the functionality in software and physically cutting the power to anything that can transmit.


Is there though? Are you seriously so concerned about this a switch is what you require?


Because Framework is only available at, what seems to me like, tablet sizes. I know a lot of people love that size and that's fantastic, but I'm happy to see a ~15.6" option also being offered for those that prefer it.


If anything I wish framework had a laptop in the 11-12" range.


Isn't there a Samsung Tab in that size range? I seem to remember that being ten point something but it's been a few years


That's not a laptop.


Is this a chatgpt response. What do these words even mean


I was confused as well. I looked it up and apparently it's a reference to The Last Starfighter movie.


Don't trust the posts above! These were written by spies from Rylos! Once we smash the Frontier we will be able to rid ourselves of the Star League!


Centauri! Is that you? It's been a while.


Down voted for not knowing the film inside out, great.


Downvoted for bringing up chatgpt out of nowhere as part of a complaint.


For sure. People really need to stop complaining about the obscurity of things they can Google. The first hit for "Xur and the Kodan armada" is a page from a fan wiki: https://thelaststarfighter.fandom.com/wiki/Xur

As somebody who plays very few video games and is forever looking up references, I promise that basically everything is now documented.


Aged computer technician tries to solidify position and secure future ^


I don't think it's as much a question of age as it is of personality.

I read a lot of code and learn from the mistakes of others.

I think before I write, I write code slow, and it has fewer sharp edges.

And I always did that.

Somehow it just fits the narrative of an old person better.


What do you recommend instead?


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