How is GA abusive? The webmaster has to explicitly permit data sharing with google. That is, the webmaster is asked if s/he wants to share data with google and the options are unchecked by default.
GA prohibits the use of personally identifiable information.
Additionally the webmaster can tell google to not store IP info, which the webmaster has chosen to this in this case.
This has gone full circle and honestly is quite irritating at this point.
People say that Google uses GA data for advertising, I say that this is not the case and then you just chose to ignore that. So I'm just gonna ask directly - can you show some evidence suggesting Google uses GA data for building advertising profiles or did you pull this opinion out of your ass?
Because as someone who analyses marketing and advertising data, I can tell you that I strongly believe they do not use GA data in this way. 1) They have no need to, they have better data; 2) This data is unreliable; 3) GA prohibits the use of personally identifiable information; and most important of all:
THE WEBMASTER CAN CHOSE TO NOT SHARE IT WITH THEM. If this webmaster went out of his way to tell google not to store IP information, I think it is pretty safe to assume that they did not opt-in to share the data with google AT ALL.
Apart from these technical reasons, using GA data in the way you think they do opens a regulatory risk of EPIC proportions.
But if you have some evidence to suggest that they do use it for "advertising profiles", please do share it. But if you can't and you formed this opinion because you are prejudiced, I would like to see you admitting it.
> Except that my opinion is formed based on logic and my expertise and your opinion is based on... what exactly?
The exact words from Google own privacy policy, and the fundamentals of how IP networking works?
> It should be noted this does not directly contradict what GP claims
I disagree with that interpretation. They specifically say that they use data collected:
"We also use this information to offer you tailored content – like giving you more relevant search results and ads."
When IP masking is enabled, Analytics removes the last octet of the user's IP address prior to its use and storage.
SO... yeah.
So that broadens the data to at-most, a 1 in 254 match based on IP address, taking User Agent strings and other browser information (plugins installed, window size, etc) I'd bet $100 they can still pinpoint a single device based on a 'masked' entry from GA data.
> It is not shameful to be wrong. It is shameful when you can't admit that you are wrong. And especially when you can't admit it even to yourself.
An opinion cannot be wrong. It's logically impossible. An opinion can be based on incorrect assumptions or incorrect knowledge, but an opinion in and of itself cannot be wrong.
You are so desperate to justify your thinking (not to me, mind you, to yourself) that you grasp for every straw possible, forgetting what the question was about along the way.
This particular question was about how you formed your opinion about Google using GA data to build advertising profiles. My opinion is formed based on my expertise in mining many terabytes of data and my experience in sourcing this data. Based on that experience I can say that GA data is not of interest to google because it is unreliable and they have better data already. Even if it was, they would have to stop themselves because it is just too damn risky (bankruptcy level risk) to use it.
So my opinion stems from my experience in this very business. And your opinion stems from where exactly? This is what I'm trying to show you. You have 0 idea what you are talking about but insist that you are right. Even further, you outright accuse google of lying when they say GA data is not used unless the webmaster explicitly opts in to share it. Why do they have that control in first place then?
Oh and btw, that quote about relevant search results and ads... you might want to check where it comes from before basing arguments off it. You know, if you want to have a coherent argument and not some tin foil conspiracy theory grasping desperately for whatever it can catch. Checking facts is a good thing, don't you agree?
Anyway, you will either admit it to yourself tomorrow, or you won't. I don't particularly care. I just wanted to see how far you will go in your justification attempt. Remember that just because you are allowed to have an opinion does not mean you must have one.
> So my opinion stems from my experience in this very business. And your opinion stems from where exactly?
For someone who claims to be experienced in the matter, you don't seem to know much about what Google does, even when they state explicitly what they do in their own privacy policy.
> You have 0 idea what you are talking about but insist that you are right. Even further, you outright accuse google of lying when they say GA data is not used unless the webmaster explicitly opts in to share it.
I never mentioned opt-in or opt-out. I said in general they re-use the data. The functionality is available, so common sense says you should assume its "enabled" (or Opt-In, in their language) for any site you visit, because you have no way to know that it isn't. I also never accused anyone of lying. I explicitly referenced Google's own privacy policy which says they use GA data for targeted ads.
> Oh and btw, that quote about relevant search results and ads... you might want to check where it comes from before basing arguments off it.
> We and our partners use various technologies to collect and store information when you visit a Google service, and this may include using cookies or similar technologies to identify your browser or device. We also use these technologies to collect and store information when you interact with services we offer to our partners, such as advertising services or Google features that may appear on other sites. Our Google Analytics product helps businesses and site owners analyze the traffic to their websites and apps. When used in conjunction with our advertising services, such as those using the DoubleClick cookie, Google Analytics information is linked, by the Google Analytics customer or by Google, using Google technology, with information about visits to multiple sites.
> Checking facts is a good thing, don't you agree?
Yup, maybe you should try it some time.
> I just wanted to see how far you will go in your justification attempt.
I admit following a clearly referenced URL, using the browser's page search and reading a couple of paragraphs was a long way to go, but I'm all about going the distance.
Your comments are breaking the HN guidelines. If you continue to do that, we will ban your account. Please (re-)read the rules and post civilly and substantively or not at all.
Not every site/product on the internet uses an abusive analytics platform, hell not all of them use analytics at all.
With sites visited in a browser, an extension can be used to block access to abusive services such as GA. There is no Ghostery for the terminal.
I have no issue with them wanting to collect usage information. I opt-in to Debian's package usage tracking.
If I still used Homebrew, I would have a huge issue with them sending information about what packages I install to Google.