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Having to look down at a center-mounted console to see your current speed seems dangerous.

Really, the whole "remove all tactile console controls and slap in an iPad" thing seems lazy and tacky.



to, for example, having to change the autopilot cruise control follow distance apparently you have to

   - find and tap "vehicle settings"
   - find the "autopilot" text label and tap it
   - now find the "+" and "-" buttons and tap them to adjust
how many seconds are your eyes going to be away from the road while you do this? And if the sun is in the right place to make it hard to see, for how much longer will you be distracted while you do this?

When it's raining I usually adjust the speed of the windshield wipers very often depending on precipitation level and spray of the car in front of me, the last thing I want to do in a reduced visibility situation is to have to futz around with a touch tablet to do so: I want a rotating dial on the stalk so I can change things without having to look anywhere else. Apparently on the model-3 this setting is also part of the tablet interface.

I cannot believe that when you have tons of "distracted driving" laws to prevent people from texting while driving, manufacturers are allowed to produce cars where you more or less need to text to actually control the car.

I am all for technological advancement, but having a tablet-driven car makes as much sense as having a tablet as your desktop keyboard where you'd have to look down all the time to figure out where the keys are.


Which is why Tesla is putting so much emphasis on voice controls.


do you think it's a better user experience to have to say out loud "windshield wipers faster" / "windshield wipers slower" every 30 seconds compared to subtly clicking the control on the stem? How well will it work with music on and while you're having a random conversation with your passengers? How well will it discriminate random voices on the radio telling your car things like "driver seat recline angle flat" or "driver seat position full back"?

Voice control is a good things for services but not for driving related controls, it's a QOL increase to be able to tell your car "set the a/c to 67 degrees", but let's leave the driving related functions (lights, wipers, cruise, ...) to hardware buttons/dials on the stem where they belong.


That sounds annoying when you kids sleeping in the back seat.


Sort of related, but an idea I had recently on a longer drive: I want a max speed control in my car. Not cruise control, I just want to be able to set the max speed I can ever drive on my current trip (say, 75 mph) and then my car only ever goes that fast when I am pressing the accelerator. I recently got a much faster car, and on the drive I would look down and realize I'm going way too fast. Would be nice to not have to trust my foot for that.


I rented a campervan in New Zealand that had that feature. They called it a "programmable limiter". It was fantastic, I loved it. If I drive with the pedal to the metal, all the way down, then it works identically to cruise control. But you can also slow down for curves or traffic, and then resume your desired speed, without having to mess with any controls.

I don't know if that was a new zealand thing, or a campervan thing. However from what I've googled, it's becoming a more common feature. https://www.buyacar.co.uk/cars/459/what-is-a-speed-limiter


It would be nice if there was a little bit harder pressure section at the end of the pedal travel that disengaged it, so in situations where it's dangerous to be artificially limited in speed (such as overtaking another vehicle) there's an easy and intuitive way to disengage it that's normal behavior. Stomp on the pedal for speed and no limitation present, gently press until higher resistance section of pedal travel (which should feel a bit like the pedal being entirely depressed) and it works as advertised.

I know Mercedes often have that extra resistance level, since I've relatives' Mercedes some (I don't know if it function in cruise control or speed limiting in any way). I always found it annoying, because it came with what felt like a lagged and softened engine response until you utilized it. That just made the cars feel like they had two modes when starting from a stop sign, too slow or too fast, depending on how hard you pressed. :/ Perhaps I would have adjusted better if I drove one for more than a couple days.


That's a pretty normal feature on Mercedes.


That seems to be pretty common, I even rented a Nissan Qashqai here in Sweden that had it, not a fancy car at all.


This is a fairly common feature in many car models.


That sounds incredibly dangerous. What if you need a burst of acceleration in some emergency?

Edit: Good points about the emergency cutoff being feasible, I stand corrected.


These devices exist, and are quite common in some countries. The number of situations where you need to suddenly accelerate past the speed limit are few and far between, but in the case of the car I rented recently, there was a single tactile button for turning the whole feature off.


How about have a point at which the pedal has extra resistance, and if you push through it, you can go over the limit?


I'm pretty sure that the Volvo XC70 I rented two years ago had exactly this feature. If you'd kickdown it will release all the furious anger hidden beneath the hood.


Every automatic does this, even a 1980's classic Mini has a kickdown cable. It basically forces the gearbox to shift down to one gear lower than it would normally do at the speed you are traveling at.


That makes sense, and I’d pay for that feature.


Well, it's the inverse of cruise control. So some comparable way to disengage quickly like tapping on the brakes could be thought up I'm sure.


There are plenty of cars with speedometer positioned in the middle (particularly from french automakers), some people don't mind that.

I personally never even look at the car with speedometer in the middle, just cannot stand the looks of it. Maybe by the time I will be able to afford Model 3 I'll grow not to mind their interior looks, but at this moment it's the most horrible looking interior I have seen. Seems more like something what hobbyist would do rather then automaker. Sad really.


They don't have it installed like Tesla though - it's higher in the field of view and usually in "infinite" focus. Not in a corner of a tacked on tablet.


> There are plenty of cars with speedometer positioned in the middle

They are usually set up to mitigate shift from far to near focus and how far you have to look from the road; they actually keep your eye closer to the road than traditional behind the wheel instruments.

The Model 3 megatablet isn't like those displays.


I had a 2008 Toyota Yaris with the same center speedometer. It didn't take that long to get used to it, and I liked having an additional compartment in front of the steering wheel (for papers mostly).


Just because you can get used to it doesn't mean it isn't dangerous.


Hopefully the autopilot is good enough that we won't have to worry about our current speed.

IMO, most automakers put too much crap on the dash and it eventually breaks or becomes outdated. I have two cars with built-in navigation systems that are essentially useless to me because they don't include traffic information.


To be pedantic, the Model 3's speedometer is considerably higher than the speedometer of most cars. You have to look right, not down.


Right, and if you're tall it's often a chore to see the speedometer through the steering wheel, it sometimes requires moving your head. This might be an improvement.


This is curious. I'm 6'"4 and have never had a problem seeing the speedometer in any car I have driven, sure I might have to adjust the seat but I've never had to peer around the steering wheel. This includes a 1974 TR6 that was way way too small for me, two Mini Coopers (though in that case it's the tacho behind the steering wheel), and various French and Italian cars. Now I have much bigger cars but it ain't because of the speedo.


> I'm 6'"4 and have never had a problem seeing the speedometer in any car I have driven

I have this problem all the time. Often the top is cut off by the steering wheel. I adjust the seat and the steering wheel to fix it though, not a big deal.


Yup, to go even further the Saturn Ion had almost the exact same placement ~10 years ago.


Remember car shopping and hating those center console displays.

I like Mazda's HUD system (think some luxury cars have had such solutions for awhile) which allows you not even change the focus of your eyes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcZdisJihI8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dr02z6tgss


That is hideous, is that the final version? Looks like a hacked in screen that would be in something while they are still developing it.


I've driven a model 3, and it's not distracting. The position relative to your eyes is very similar to the position of the dash on a Prius, for example.


While I completely agree, your statement made me consider that altogether it's not much different from looking down at a normal car's speedometer already.


In the U.K. there’s such concern over being distracted while driving that it’s illegal to touch a smartphone while driving even if you’re just using google maps. Not sure a giant touchscreen in the middle of the dashboard would be any better.

What would be cool would be a long thin OLED screen where the instrumentation normally goes. And physical controls with a Taptic-style feedback mechanism for navigating dynamic interfaces.

This would allow for a more fluid, updateable UI while still keeping important info in the eyeline.

More expensive than just slapping an off-the-shelf LCD panel wherever it’ll fit I guess...


Should be a heads-up display.


I have a heads-up display in my Audi A4, and it turns out to be surprisingly useful. It shows speed limit, current speed, and upcoming navigation turns. The only problem is that it can be difficult to see if wearing polarized sunglasses.


Interesting, I wonder if that's an unsolved problem - BMW's HUD has the same issue.


Yeah, I'm surprised they didn't do that.

Once you have speed & navigation on the windshield you don't look elsewhere for that information. It's easier and safer, so it feels like a new standard. When I drive other cars it's something that I really miss.


Yes that's one feature I really miss from my old Pontiac. I don't know why more manufacturers don't offer HUDs. It really does help improve safety by keeping the driver's eyes on the road.


I was thinking this also, seems like the perfect thing.


It could highlight hazards and turn-offs, especially at night. And all the other data that the automated driving system collects. I bet it'd be safer even if you didn't switch to fully automatic. It'd be awesome. Maybe we can get it as an add on.


That's the same in every Mini.


Not quite. The large round speedometer in the center on the mini is only to honor the old mini look. They also have a fairly large digital speedometer on the top of the steering column.


What makes it any worse than having to look down at an instrument panel?


Takes longer to move your gaze, and less of the road is in your peripheral vision.


Is it actually farther away, in terms of angles, than a normal instrument cluster? Looks similar to me. I haven’t sat in one yet though.


Seems basically the same as the Toyota Prius.


The newer Prius speedometer (etc.) is a more distant, behind the console display. (Previously, Prius used behind-the-wheel.) The angle might be similar (though the Tesla looks significantly lower), and the Tesla display seems (again, from photos) to require nearer focus.


iPad Pro


disagree. having buttons and knobs just because it's the norm and auto manufacturers don't want to risk changing annoys the crap out of me.

remove every single tactile element. have convenient touch interface. have usable voice control. that's the future. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes.

Edit: what is it with people not reading the message before commenting on it? that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes. that's also an exaggeration, but i'd like the pendulum to swing there and see where it stabilizes.


> having buttons and knobs just because it's the norm

What about having buttons and knobs just because you can use them without looking at them? Because that's what makes them extraordinarily useful when compared to a touchscreen.

> remove every single tactile element. have convenient touch interface. have usable voice control.

Just to imagine out loud: you want to change lanes. In order to activate your indicator, you have to look down at a touchscreen, or say "Car, activate left indicator!". I struggle to see how either of those could be an improvement on the current controls. Now I come to think of it, the wheel is a tactile element! Maybe we could implement a left-to-right slider on a touchscreen you could use to control car direction?

I get that you're not actually advocating for that, but I also don't think we really need to test out the hypothesis to know that it's a bad idea.


As someone with touch interfaces in their car for a lot of traditional things: sorry, you’re dead wrong.

In practice, the inability to do things without looking over to make sure your finger is in the right place is a big problem.

It’s far too easy to hit the wrong thing or hit nothing. There’s no good way to judge how much you’re adjusting something without looking at it.

It’s infuriating. If it wasn’t for the tactile controls on my steering wheel I wouldn’t have bought he car. It’s that bad.


Knobs are safer, a flat screen by definition requires your eyes to be on it to use since there is no tactile component. And if your eyes aren't on the road...


You are thinking about this based on your experience with traditional cars. When you drive today, think about all the moments of interactions that you have with the car while driving. It is fairly limited. You would change volume controls, turn on wipers, skip music, call someone etc. And almost all of those controls are either available via the steering wheels knobs or readily available on the giant screen (e.g., climate controls). The touch screen is really there for secondary controls such as vehicle settings and user preferences. Most people are thinking that you have to navigate some menu to increase volume. But that's not the case.


But even if they're right on the giant screen, you still have to look. A dashboard knob can be used without ever taking the eyes from the road.


Tactile feedback allows you to use controls without taking your eyes off the road. Do you really want the opposite of this in a car?


Couldn't disagree more, but I guess there will be that division between people. Cars are not the phones and at least until I'm driving my car myself, I will always prefer buttons or other tactile UI instead of touchscreen. And voice control, well if you are non English speaker, good luck with that :)


I think it's pretty clear that touch is third rate for many applications. Such as where you'd like to reliably and quickly operate a control without looking at it.

Voice control. No thanks. Optional for the stereo perhaps, but I absolutely do not want a car that's voice controlled where I can travel with 4 other humans. Kids are noisy. Teen friends might find it comical to shout out "handbrake!". Need I go on?

Yes, I know tactile switches and knobs are so last century, but they look like actually the best tool for the job.


> Teen friends might find it comical to shout out "handbrake!".

obviously not for anything driving related. there's still plenty left: radio/music, ac, navigation, phone interactions.

i don't really know where people got the idea i was talking about driving related instruments. they are almost never "buttons and knobs".


I rented a Tesla Model S four months ago, and I enjoyed it very much, except for the fact that they had hidden the button for the fog lights in some menu on the touch screen - it was not easy to turn on and off while driving - at all! Otherwise, it felt like someone had thinked through the most things.


I can already can change volume, change track, mute, answer/hang-up a call, signal, adjust my lights, set/cancel cruise control, wash my windscreen, and other stuff I have forgotton without taking my hands off the steering wheel


Never liked the idea of touch controls in cars. You don't need to look at knobs to find and operate them, but you absolutely need to look at a touchscreen and that just gives people more chances to get distracted from the road.


Someday, when the computer glitches or is slow to boot up, and you'd really like the AC to turn on, please update your comment above.


Tried a Peugeot 308 2017 that replaces a lot od buttons (ac,..) with a touch interface.

This being a french car maker they obviously skimp on having adequate performance - interface is slow as hell. Just increasing ventilation is a 30s process.

It actually made me rethink my purchase an go for a different brand.

I know buttons are expensive if you want good looking + ergonomic ones (a tablet is a great cost saving measure), but its worse for todays cars.

For cars in 5 yr time touch will be the norm and not a problem since full autonomy vehicles remove the worry of keeping your eyes on the road.

I would really count touch as a minus for tesla, but it sure is visionary. Kindof like we hated iphone for going with touch and no physical keyboard. It's stkll shitty bur we addpyed. Sort-off ;)


Speaking from a necessity standpoint, how often does someone actually check their speed? How often does one need to check their speed?

How often do you look at your car's thermometer, clock, compass, stereo, HVAC controls, or seat warmer switch? I would say 2 or more at least 2 times per car ride.

In my experience I am either on small roads where the person in front of me or the windiness of the road artificially limit my speed to something around the speed limit. Or I am on a busy road where I am traveling close to the speed of traffic regardless of the speed limit.

About the only time I check my speed is when I feel in danger and I want to rule myself out as the cause or when I see a cop car and I want to avoid getting pulled over.

From what I have heard in reviews, the speed is displayed in the top right corner of the display and is no harder to see than a regular speedometer.


I am constantly checking my speed. But I guess that explains my frustration at other people who seem to swing wildly +-5 MPH for no clear reason.


This is why I'm so upset that my 2014 Leaf didn't have cruise control by default. It'd be like $300 to get it installed aftermarket.


$300 is surprisingly inexpensive. I'm assuming the wiring harness is in place and that's just to replace the steering wheel face to give you the controls?


Oh-- I thought it was expensive!! Yeah, I can imagine all that needs to happen is they need to pull off a little face plate and put in the buttons/switches. I'm now embarrassed that I haven't figured out how to do it myself.


Not sure where you live but in places like Australia, UK etc. there are speed restrictions for certain areas.

In particular when you drop from 60km/h to 40km/h during a school zone. These are often continuously monitored by speed cameras and subject to excessive fines and often loss of license. And if you've ever been in a high end car this drop in speed is often hard to notice.

So yes, a lot of the population are constantly checking their speeds. Otherwise you at risk of losing your license and if you cause an accident going to jail.


We have speed controlled zones in the US as well and I don't see how that makes a difference. It's a speed limit, not a speed requirement. Unless you're riding the speed limit and leaving yourself no margin for error then you should be actively monitoring your speedometer with sub-minute frequency and having to glance to your side instead of down isn't going to impact you much if at all.

My point is that where I'm from I typically don't get to decide my speed because it's dictated by externalities like traffic or road conditions. I also have a pretty good idea of the speed I'm travel and when moving through speed control zones I know if I need to slow down without watching my speedometer like a hawk.


Are there no speed cameras where you are from?

Most people I know would get between 5 and 10 fines per ride if they did not check their speed.


A speed limit is an upper bound maximum safe speed, not the speed you're required to travel at on the road. If you're unable to approximate your speed and keep it under the speed limit without a gauge then maybe you shouldn't be driving?




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