I love the idea, but I don't think I could trust myself with it. Generally my phone will still have a healthy chunk of battery left at the end of the day, but fairly often, if I'm out of town for a day for meetings or whatever, by the time I'm back home I will have spent so much time on calls that it will have completely drained my battery.
One feature I'd love to see is connecting it with the doorbell, then I would forget about my battery worries and go straight for it. Would come in occasional use for if someone you're happy to let in arrives while you are out, but would also be great for day-to-day use. They press the buzzer, you get a phone call to talk to them followed by the option to let them in or not. (Where I live right now, my office is two floors up, it's pretty rare that I can hear anyone at the door.)
edit: The FAQ page is a bit vague about international orders due to "latency issues", any chance of some expansion on that? To my mind, a long distance (say, UK to California) is adding less than a second of latency, and I wouldn't have any problem if the door took a couple of seconds to unlock. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the problem latency causes?
Stash an extra charger cable outdoors? I wonder if that could eventually be worked into the product somehow; i.e. a DC current where there's a recessed spot for an adapter...
Personally I don't think I'd care if it was a 10 second delay. (It often takes me that long to find the right key to open the door.)
edit: One international issue that has occured to me is the cost of texting a foreign number. Do you have any idea of how many users you'd want to have from a country in order to get a number that's local to them? (And/or is your SMS provider unable to do that?)
We currently use Twilio, but they removed their beta international SMS support a while ago. That said, Tropo has international numbers in some countries.
I think that 4-5 customers using our text message feature would be sufficient for us to consider internationalizing SMS, assuming Tropo support in that country.
I've worked with both the TextMagic and Clickatell APIs (there are Ruby gems for both, we've used them for server monitoring notification) and they're really trivial to use and work internationally.
Neat idea, but it seems to me that you absolutely must hide the backup key on your property for this to be safe. There are way too many points of failure between the phone and lock.
Why not have the phone talk to the lock through the local wifi? Or put a wifi/bluetooth radio right in the lock? That should be more dependable and faster. Is that what you are talking about here?
"if you would like to access Lockitron only via your local network, then we welcome you to flash your base-station with a new image that gives you full access to develop as you see fit (coming soon)"
Or, you could communicate via QR code on the screen, using a camera in the door (that doubles as a remote peephole).
Or, you could encode the data as high-frequency sound and use the speaker/mic for two-way comm.
There are all sorts of possibilities that beat going over the internet.
>>Why not have the phone talk to the lock through the local wifi?
The easy way to do this was susceptible to a number of different attacks so we disabled it. The hard way is being sorted out.
>>Is that what you are talking about here?
Sort of. If you buy the equipment, it's yours to hack...this includes expanding functionality to support eccentric authentication mechanisms. I'll post some stuff to our blog in the coming weeks to give you an idea.
Kwikset also sells an iphone enabled lock, but an extremely cursory search didn't turn up a patent for them.
I wish them the best, but I'm having trouble coming up with a compelling argument to buy from them instead of buying what appear to be more mature, fully-featured products, backed by major lock manufacturers that are pretty well guaranteed not to go away in a year or two.
They should add a keypad as well for people without a phone. Keypad code gets set automatically for each Airbnb guest and expires automatically. This of course requies the Airbnb space to have an internet connection.
You could do this today with the Schlage system. It allows you to create a number of codes, and supports codes that work only during specified periods of time so a particular guest's keycode would only work for the duration of their stay.
We don't have the perfect solution to this yet, but we've been mulling the idea of key code locks for a while.
Current users who encounter this usually find some way to unlock their door for their guests after a phone call, leaving keys inside. The prevalence of affordable prepaid phones is helping to alleviate this issue.
I used AirBnb in Paris and my mobile didn't work. The host was gracious enough to send someone around to find the confused looking foreigners when she couldn't reach me.
> While the Lockitron locks do accept traditional keys, the main advantage of using the same technology as found in car key fobs to open your front door is that everything is in the cloud (your data is encrypted).
> main advantage [...] is that everything is in the cloud (your data is encrypted).
What? Someone is trying to feed me buzzword soup again.
The advantage is that (theoretically) you can't lose them, you can grant and revoke access permissions at will based on time limitations and you can share them very easily. See other comments on the thread about airbnb for example.
Really you could have that benefit without using remote servers at all, just run a local server at home. After all, if your home connection dies, your door can't be unlocked by 'the cloud' either.
That's true - but you probably don't grind your own flour, service your own car, run your own bank or make your own furniture. Why run your own server?
Awful examples. Running your own server for this wouldn't have to mean learning to code your own firmware for their hardware, it wouldn't even have to mean being tech-savvy enough to install something like apache.
Lockitron could chose to release their hardware with that already done, so it plugs into the router and is ready to go. In that case, there are no benefits of the cloud, and the downside that it adds an extra possible point of failure. An example that would fit your comment, but not your theory, better is "you probably don't run your own router control panel web server". How many routers want you to control them through their manufacturer's remote servers, rather than just having an HTTP server built in? And is that in some way as time-consuming as grinding your own flour or making your own furniture?
Sure, as it stands right now, you might not be able to buy a Lockitron device and run it yourself quite as easily as using their servers. But this chain of comments isn't discussing "which choice should buyers make", it's "is their use of buzz words justified when they say 'main advantage [...] is that everything is in the cloud'", and frankly I don't think that's an advantage over a system where all devices run their own servers.
Sure there are benefits. The keys are backed up remotely and you have access off-premises. If anything goes wrong, presumably you can call up tech support and they can access the system without your opening ports on your router or messing with a firewall. It could make administration (and reliability) much better.
They may not be benefits that you want, but they're the benefits that Lockitron are stressing.
(Personally, I'm happy with a key and, FWIW, my parents don't run their own control panel on their Vodafone local cell-network box - they call up the service people and they access the box remotely. So I can happily agree with your comparison too, if you like.)
I'm not that happy that the lock has to communicate with a central server. For one, that adds all sorts of dependencies (the internet, central service, etc. have to be up for the unlock command to work). For another, what if there is a security compromise of the central server?
I'd much rather have a system where the lock uses an NFC sensor and a CPU, and it works with phones that have NFC. Yes, you wouldn't be able to do remote revocation (you'd have to be standing in front of the lock to send an updated CRL), but it would be a lot more secure, and it avoids dependence on a central server.
This is great (and would be nice if it did cars and worked with HID office keys, too).
I would be a lot happier with a single RFID tag per user (globally; it could be your phone with NFC, or a $0.05 tag) which could be remotely added or removed from the ACL on doors (use zigbee or even a 3g chipset built into the door; it only updates infrequently).
That way you don't need to pull your phone out in a dark alley and hit a button to unlock the door, and if your Internet connection is down (or power is out), the door can still unlock.
You could hack this up with the Schlage locksets and new firmware.
I guess it's a question of feature prioritization: no keys at all but a clunkier UX with less features, or a single RFID tag with lots of other benefits.
Austrian RFID (ISO 14443) company Legic has had a deal with Schlage for a while. And Swedish lock company Assa Abloy ($B conglomerate) also owns HID (and its numerous subsidiaries), which pretty much dominates RFID-based access control, and has had a solution in place for at least 3 years that I know of.
Edit: Legic is Austrian, not German. Fixed.
Edit 2: I was obsessed with this topic in '06-07 as the RFID startup I worked for struggled to maintain relevance as each use case for RFID proved pathetic ROIs vs existing solutions. I left when it was clear NFC/ payments was the only viable strategy and the startup was unwilling to drop the other verticals and pursue NFC (which is only now about to become viable).
Yeah, the value is in having a decent API, easy self-install lockset for homes and small businesses; HID type stuff is almost always professionally installed, requires wiring to the door, etc. The legic/schlage system has really bad software, and the service is lame, too -- bad enough that I bought one and didn't install it on an exterior door.
I like the hacker aesthetic of lockitron, but want the robustness of the pro stuff too. Although if they do NFC tag reads in the lockset, it wouldn't be too hard to work as a simple internet-programmable RFID lock.
So, just to be clear: ISO 14443 is the RFID standard from which the NFC standard, ISO 18092, is basically derived. There are very minor differences.
EDIT: The hope with NFC is that the phone can become a passive (non-power requiring) tag that can be read without internal power. As well, the hope is that it can read tags as well, though they are often referring to ISO 15693 and ISO 14443 (These are considered RFID standards) tags as far as readability (don't even get me started on ISO 14443A vs ISO14443B....Ugh).
Thanks for the idea! I wouldn't be surprised if we move in this direction. People love their fobs, but provisioning for temporary access on the big access control systems is a pain with current panels.
The big issue is, of course, hardware development cost in getting active NFC into the locksets. Some of the high end hotel & commercial locksets from Assa and Schlage are adding NFC capabilities, but I suspect the software is plagued by the same, traditional problems.
The current software is bad, but you must realize that we don't want off-site "cloud" software for our office doors. What happens when your servers go down (or our internet goes down) and we ... what, send people home? Prop the doors open because our door unlocking service provider is down?
What we want is reliable software that we can own, run locally, integrate into our existing systems, and maintain in the event of failure.
Actually, for commercial users, what would rock is something which could do LDAP and integrate with real-ldap or Active Directory for access control; taking it away from a weird outsourced system or standalone old windows PC and integrating with the regular IT infrastructure.
This already happened with PBXes; next, it should happen with access control, and then with building management (HVAC; imagine if logging into your workstation allowed you to have programmed lighting/heating controls for your work area happen automatically; especially useful if you work at night or on weekends in a big office)
I very much agree. Having something that could drop into our existing directory system is exactly what I was thinking; the standalone Windows PC is what needs to be retired.
Yeah -- the question I have about why Lockitron did it the way they did is if there were patent or other considerations which forced them into doing it that way. If not, I think it would be technically pretty simple to build a small quantity which behave the way I (and you, and some others) want; it's still hard to build for mass production, and gets even harder once people get picky about the color, material, design, etc. of the actual locksets.
Just find a way to abstract all the nonsense. I'd be happy to help you to get test locks ( I have contacts at schlage and Assa Abloy). I don't want to bother you by email w/o permission, however.
Once I get a home/office set up with a hardware lab later this month, I'm going to try to see if I can build something user-powered vs. battery which does this kind of thing (similar to how the Mas-Hamilton or Kaba-Mas X09 works) and speaks to iClass.
Btw, I'd love to talk to you too (email me at ryan@venona.com if you'd like?) about RFID stuff; I worked for an RFID payment company back in 2003 (ViVoTech, implemented paypass and some loyalty card systems), and I've got some friends who want to set up a hardware lab.
I live with the founders so I've had Lockitron for about a year. in my unbiased opinion: it's absolutely amazing especially if you have a lot of house guests (hacker sleepovers).
I'd be interested to hear what kind of backups the founders have. My biggest worry would be what do I do if something happens to my phone while I'm out: broken, mugged, or even just the battery died. It would suck if on top of that I couldn't get into my own house. Do you guys still take your keys with you, or keep a spare around?
I'm not looking at it that way. Keys are just another thing to keep in your pocket, but your phone is always with you. The way I carry stuff in my pockets, my phone is always more readily available than my keys so taking it out is a natural motion.
You can, however, argue that taking out your phone, launching the app, and clicking a button is as an aggregate action more involved than just inserting and rotating a key. I think the real benefits become apparent when you realize all the stuff this enables you to do: your spouse/friends no longer get locked out, you never have to do the "did I lock it or not?" dance, and if they provide an API, you can sync a lot of stuff when your door opens, like turn on appliances, trigger a network setting, boot your computer, text your friends, anything really.
Yeah but all of that could be done from a phone if the house was locked with an RFID tag (and they are cheap enough that you can hand them out more or less like candy, since they are about that price).
As for not locking the door, that is definitely a problem (as is, as I have also done, unlocking the door and leaving the keys in it) but I have never really been in doubt that I locked the door, even if I hadn't.
Another idea that will fail based off the user interface. Keys are too slow. Opening the door with your phone is even slower. I prefer to carry a second faster key than have this in my pocket and then click slide, start the app, wait for it to connect, then open the door.
You are missing that this is not necessarily aimed at regular home owners. Imagine offices, rented accommodation or as a secondary lock for homes. Being able to offer and revoke keys over the air is huge.
This isn't disruptive to household locks, but to the high ticket price door entry systems.
But then why mobile? Why is it not just a web based app if it's meant to manage a large number of locks? Mobile is not a convenient interface, apart from things that need to be mobile.
It's still pointless. The current key-system is a low tech, simple system with few associated costs and no major pain points. It's also a system that is strongly in place already. The Lockitron is a complicated system with many moving parts that will break every now and then, and that has no clear target market, and it's more expensive than current systems.
If the makers get it to work, I'd be happy for them, but my estimation is that it's going to be dead in a couple of years.
Getting rid of a key in my pocket would be a big win. Once the lock can be controlled via the Internet, it would enable things like location sensing (so my door would unlock for me, or whatever)
I would love this to replace my Volvo key. It's as big as the iPhone (kidding - but, it is big)
Offices use RFID key fobs with local, dedicated hardware. An internet connected mobile phone based entry system is too complex, and will have particular difficulty integrating into the existing supply/service chain for these kind of systems.
We really, really don't need mobile phone based key unlock systems. I een considered building one for our home, but diacarded the idea due to the user experience complexity of having to use my phone instead of a simple key (but still carrying a key in case of failure).
As for Airbnb users, all you need is a programmable keypad (or an RFID entry system.)
I' m remarkably negative because it's a bad idea. I'm not going to pretend to like the idea to spare someones feelings. To my uninformed judgement, it's something that will not work.
This is great feature for the fact that you could potentially lock ALL doors in your house at once. For people with 10k square foot house, this could save a lot of footwork before heading out to town.
Anyone know if there's a similar internet (wireless?) connected deadbolt with a keypad -- such that you can create multiple valid keycodes on a schedule, and receive logs back regarding accesses?
I thought enough people knew by this time that storing all your passwords in plaintext file on desktop is insecure. Why do you even need a phone if you have a key somewhere on the property.
You need a phone to make and receive phone calls, among other things. That's why you already have it. You don't need the key for anything but opening your front door. The point of this device is to obviate the need to carry that key all day for that single moment it's needed.
Nobody's going to find your emergency spare key if it's left in a non-obvious place; there are no rings of thieves with metal detectors scouring half acre properties.
This works if you need to give friends or family access, but what about taking it one step further by using a finger print scan + security PIN? Trying to fiddle with your phone from your pocket and opening an app or sending a text message can be just as cumbersome as looking for your keys.
Wonderful gadget. Once the hardware evolves into something prettier I am all in! I am excited for a future when my phone, or just simply my presence, unlocks all my doors...especially my car door.
This the kind of idea that sounds so obvious in retrospect. Now that everyone carries around a phone at all times, bringing a key as well is just redundant. Can't wait to see this get adoption.
Anyone think this is a bad idea? What if your phone becomes comprised or stolen? Then they have access to your house? Its easier to forge a bunch of bits than a key.
Not really.. Lock picking, particularly home-locks, isn't very hard at all.
Many people attend Lock Picking competitions, and it is a somewhat popular geek-sport.
I'd much have a 4096-bit public key, than a flimsy piece of metal.
Can you tell us about the architecture? What kind of wireless link do you use? Does the lock poll the base station? How do you traverse the home firewall? Do you poll continuously?
Depends on the batteries...a 4 pack of name brand alkaline's from Target should get you between 10,000 and 18,000 cycles or about 1-2 years. I haven't tested with some of the crazier 22,000mAH ones one can get through Industrial resellers
>>What kind of wireless link do you use?
For the residential units, the server talks to the door lock using the same protocols found in car fobs.
For the commercial systems, we use electrical strikes. There is no wireless communication. We manually trip a relay.
One feature I'd love to see is connecting it with the doorbell, then I would forget about my battery worries and go straight for it. Would come in occasional use for if someone you're happy to let in arrives while you are out, but would also be great for day-to-day use. They press the buzzer, you get a phone call to talk to them followed by the option to let them in or not. (Where I live right now, my office is two floors up, it's pretty rare that I can hear anyone at the door.)
edit: The FAQ page is a bit vague about international orders due to "latency issues", any chance of some expansion on that? To my mind, a long distance (say, UK to California) is adding less than a second of latency, and I wouldn't have any problem if the door took a couple of seconds to unlock. But maybe I'm misunderstanding the problem latency causes?