I can. I got my shots as soon as I could, but I know lots of people that will never do it. Yesterday I was eating at a ramen shop - traffic was slow, so I got to listen to the bulletproof young man waiting tables talk to his friend at length about how he'd never get the shot, just like the flu, I'm not an anti-vaxxer - but, I don't wear tinfoil hats - but.
The list of reasons not to do it was long and apparently convincing enough to them.
I have no real needle phobia but in the past I was never very fond of them either, because they felt unpleasant. But with my recent vaccinations I really could not tell when it started or ended. Modern injection needles are a lot smaller than the ones that were used a decade ago.
Some tips:
Try to relax your muscles. Lift your arms and let them fall down again.
Look away is the most solid advice here. Pain from vaccination (at least immediate pain) is mostly in our heads. I hate needles but I always tell about it to the person giving me the shot (or take blood) and look away. If you ever got stung by a bee or got a paper cut, those are probably a thousand times more painful and you don't even see those coming to be prepared.
You're right. Needle phobia is an officially recognized phobia, and there's a Wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear_of_needles) about it, with estimates from 10% to well over 20% of the US adult population being needle phobic. (I'm vaccinated and not needle phobic.)
I was asking the same thing the other day. No way to prove it, but I would say it's probably 25%.
Before this all started, I knew quite a few people who were just terrified of needles. Now, it's not that they're terrified, it's just [insert BS reason]
It me. I put off the needle for a long time—in fact my last shot was in 1991. Until last month. And hopefully that will be my last needle, since so many more humane methods of delivery are just around the corner.
Possibly, but they wouldn't make a noticeable number. The antivaxxers crowd is bigger and more motivated by the same nonsense. I wonder why they, including the same people who hate injections, never complained about mandatory vaccines for their kids, a practice that went on for decades in many countries?
For example, most European countries had and still have 10 or more obligatory vaccinations for diseases that were finally defeated thanks to the practice, yet I have to meet one parent who refuses to let their kids receive it. I have good memory, and don't recall of anyone screaming when I was taking the anti-smallpox shot as a kid; it's just the same bullshit planted in their heads through social media.
The covid vaccine is newer, therefore not tested enough? Bullshit! Every vaccine has been "young" at some time. There are no records of people protesting back then about treatments against diphteria, meningitis, polyo and others.
There may be some side effects? Again a pile of bullshit. Lots of medicines can have side effects but people don't protest in the streets about that.
Years back I took too many painkillers for my back pains, unfortunately they attacked my guts bacterial flora so I got an intestinal blockage while experiencing a sudden drop in blood red cells. I spent weeks taking tests and restoratives before it was clear I didn't have leukemia, which is present in my family and is what my father died of.
No, it's not fear of the needle, it's pure and simple politicized misinformation through social media and other sources. Those idiots follow what their leaders say without turning on the brain; no critical thinking, or any consideration for the evidence: they're the perfect army any corrupt politician would love to herd.
I have likely received more vaccinations than most people here, as a result of my travels and history. I have not been vaccinated for COVID-19. I did receive a positive test (a few days of unusual coughing and lethargy) in November, and confirmed with extensive antibody testing recently that I still have natural resistance. I am not opposed to getting vaccinated, if/when necessary, but now is not that time. I am well informed of the risk/reward matrices and the mechanisms of this coronavirus and its variants.
Your portrayal is disgusting to me, full of irrational hatred and prejudicial biases. It seems borne of an unwavering religious fervor, the likes of which we haven't seen in the West for hundreds of years. I do hope you find some peace within, rather than needing to spew your hateful language across the world.
what do you find hateful? Do you not think that there is alot of politicized misinformation now that is making the current public health crisis worse? One of my best friends has fallen for qanon. He thinks that vaccine makes you magnetic and Michelle Obama is a man. Should we be ok with this? squarefoot does not say he wishes harm on anyone, he just sounds frustrated, and i can relate
With all due respect, you're wrong in believing I was referring to you.
I've got symptomatic Covid-19 in late october 2020, loss of taste and smell, bad cough and high temperatures for about a week, but since it wasn't that bad and hospitals back then were overwhelmed by people in much worse conditions, so I stayed at home with my girlfriend (Covid positive as well but weaker symptoms) although in daily contact with my doctor which prescribed me the necessary cures. After recovering and passing a negative test I started enjoying my freedom, but apparently 2020 had other plans for me, so in early december I suffered the worst road accident in my life, which required 2 surgeries and almost 2 months of hospitalization.
I have no idea why, but as soon as I was brought to the ER, they tested me for Covid with a swab, which turned positive. I can see myself telling them "that's impossible, I recovered just 3 weeks ago!" but they didn't believe me until my girlfriend brought the entire documentation about that. Problem was that I was still positive, multiple tests confirmed it, although this time 100% asymptomatic, so they were forced to send me in the Covid ward. Being in a Covid ward means you won't see anyone's face, nor have any contacts with your family or friends. Even nurses and doctors will quickly do what is necessary to assist you then rush out of the room asap.
I spent all December and most of January there, and could see people dead or dying of Covid in their beds. I counted 5 of them: 3 in intensive care and 2 in the room. In one case I could see the poor man being helped by the nurses to get in bed, then putting a couple oxygen pipes in his nostrils, jut like the ones they gave to me although I didn't need them. In a few days, the man conditions worsened steadily, so he was first given an oxygen mask, then an helmet, then he was intubated, and a couple more days they pronounced him dead, put him in a bag and carried him away.
I also had as roommate an elder man who happened to succesfully defeat Covid, although he ended up completely dissociated (possibly lack of oxygen?), so for a couple weeks I had there a poor man who kept calling loudly his mom, a number of his relatives, the police (he kept screaming that someone was attempting to kill him), and other people like every 10 seconds until either he had no voice anymore, or the nurses sedated him. I believe that I was sedated with him as well through the same oxygen circuit, since in a few cases I experienced hallucinations and bad dreams (I was in a line of beds in a field slowly going forward for my turn to get surgery) which seemed taken straight from an early Pink Floyd album.
All of this, then eventually I got home, although in need of daily rehabilitation for one more month, and other therapies later (broken L4 is nasty).
My condition, minus the accident, isn't that different from yours. I also took a spike test in late March, which confirmed I had a very high antibodies level, and... surprise: I'm not vaccinated as well, although I'm already in line to get it on Aug 11, Pfizer, probably a single dose for having already been positive.
What we're in very different leagues, again minus the accident, is the knowledge of the dangers of Covid. I could see people either dead or dying, and am not comfortable knowing that every time someone doesn't take any precautions, the result might be more deaths. I would have no problems if negationists and anti-vaxxers would get home, alone, and remain there until Covid is 100% eradicated, but that is not the case as they often wander around with no protections during their protests. Knowingly acting as virus carriers is a freedom they shouldn't deserve; they simply disgust me.
Of course I'm not putting people with allergies, or others who have serious medical conditions that prevent them from taking vaccines; that should have been clear from the beginning. About the others? I have zero respect for them.
A relative of mine is buying into the vaccine conspiracies along with shitting on depression and other mental problems, and honestly, I wish they'd get a serious case of Covid or something.
These people don't learn until someone they know actually fucking dies.
I'm not conspiratorial but I am "vaccine hesitant" as they call it here in the US. For instance, if I theoretically got bitten by a rabid dog and I didn't want to die I would take the rabies vax.
I personally disapprove of the COVID vaccine since it is very unusual for vaccines to be made in two days...and evidence regarding long-term side effects is scarce.
However if taking the Covid vaccine meant I would get $10k in cash, then of course I would take it.
Yeah, I am more pissed at the dismissal of metal health. Don't care much about Covid, had it, it was weak. I'd take the vaccine just to regain the freedoms. Then again I'd take anything lol, some shit I tried really sent me down some weird holes. And I would welcome death, so meh.
Oh that guy, hey! I came home and my account is banned heh. Fantastic.
Instead of trying to tackle crime, drug use, depression, etc. at a surface level, the government should take a step back and try to look at WHY we are slaves to instant dopamine.
This anti-vax nonsense has really tested my ability to not wish suffering on others. I’ve climbed that hill and found the empathy for these people, but it took actual mental effort.
The more people it infects (even if it is young healthy people), the greater chance of more deadly strain. COVID-19 isn't that deadly, but is highly infectious. What happens if it mutates into something like this (another form of the coronavirus):
When you are young and care about other people, you should really get vaccinated. When there are many vaccinated individuals the number of infections drops dramatically, which helps to protect vulnerable individuals (some of them might be young).
* Not infecting others who are more at risk or cannot get the vaccine (allergies, age, availability) or are higher risk than you (age, preconditions), including anti-vaxxers (I would be devastated if a beloved family members died even if they rejected the vaccine).
* Doing your part to wipe Covid out so we get back to normal (do you have a better plan?)
* Wiping Covid out so we don't get a worse strain like the delta strain that will affect younger people.
* The lag between a particularly bad strain circulating widely and you finding out about it.
* Long Covid including brain chronic fatigue / brain fog, potential non fatal but still permanent, debilitating lung damage, cardiovascular damage leading to increased risk of strokes later on. Which has been shown to be a risk for young people as well, more than death.
* Avoiding the massive inconvenience of a potential multi week "very bad flu".
* The medical experts (gov agencies, universities, industries) across the world all strongly recommending it. (Have you at least asked your primary care physician if you should get it? Why not?)
* Benefitting from the exemptions granted to vaccinated people such as indoor dining in NYC and entering the US from Europe and vice versa.
* Keeping your job when they mandate it unofficially or officially (I've seen both).
* The demonstrated risk of dying from covid, and even more so the risk of long covid, as a young person still being way higher than the theoretical / non demonstrated risk of the vaccine. Especially since we have already vaccinated >1.5 billion people - if anything should be seriously wrong with the vaccines, fixing that and helping affected people would likely immediately become an important topic of medical research as soon as we find out.
* Fringe benefits like the lotteries for vaccinated people.
* There being clear evidence of covid being downplayed for political reasons, especially in the US and in 2020. But everywhere else and in 2021 as well. Prominent politicians who have downplayed it still having gotten the vaccine (granted, they're all old people, and your question was about young people). The same politicians constantly retreating from one wrong position to another as they are proven wrong again and again. Whereas the "other side" has so far mostly been right on every major topic.
* Political players that normally don't agree on anything agreeing on this - Russia, China and the US all have a vaccine program and recommend vaccination for essentially everyone. Inside the US, the Democrats are obviously in favor of vaccination, but do not forget that two vaccines got emergency approval while the Republicans had control of all three branches.
* Young people being vaccinated and showing up in vaccination stats influencing older people to get vaccinated.
* Last and least all the anecdotes of people who on their deathbed said they should've gotten the damn vaccine.
I hope you understand that we will not be “wiping out COVID” any time soon.
We need long term management strategies that are actually sustainable and protect the most vulnerable. And we probably need to worry less about persuading the die hards and more about things like standing up booster distribution and making ventilation improvements.
And a lot of the die hards will probably come around when the vaccine becomes part of the normal, boring health care routine instead of something they’re being “forced into” in an emergency, You know, you go in to the clinic in the winter with a cold. Doc asks if you’ve had your flu shot. Asks if you’ve had your COVID shot. That’s a much more comfortable context for people, I think.
> And a lot of the die hards will probably come around when the vaccine becomes part of the normal, boring health care routine instead of something they’re being “forced into” in an emergency, You know, you go in to the clinic in the winter with a cold. Doc asks if you’ve had your flu shot. Asks if you’ve had your COVID shot. That’s a much more comfortable context for people, I think.
Have you looked at uptake rates for the seasonal flu vaccine?
> Flu vaccination coverage among adults ≥18 years was 45.3%, an increase of 8.2 percentage points from the 2017–18 flu season and 2.0 percentage points higher than the 2016–17 season.
Well 70% of people adults are already on board, so we don’t need to worry about besting that number. The question is how do reduce resistance. My totally made up theory is that some people are just generally resistant to things being “pushed” from above, and some people are more concerned about new technology than others. Both of those things will probably improve as this cools off and becomes less political. In the mean time, there are other things we could be working on.
I think it's far more likely that the expressed reasons you cite are, for many (I'd bet 15-20% of the population), just rationalizations for the underlying reason which is that being anti-covid-vaccine is now a part of some folks political, cultural, and/or religious identity.
And it is damn tough to break through something like that. That's doubly true when political and religious leaders are actively pushing people to not get vaccinated.
No, I’m not discounting it. That’s what I’m talking about when i refer to people resistant to things “pushed from above.” I’m saying that’s part of the issue, and it’s only going to be solved (if it can be), by depoliticizing the issue and making it a mundane medical concern. And that’s going to take time, and backing off the stick.
Or… you know, just give people 500 bucks (including everybody who already did it.)
Vaccines reduce ones chance of acquiring a Delta infection by a significant margin (not as high as previous variants but still significant). Even if you assume just 50% effectiveness in preventing disease (which is very conservative), that dramatically lowers the R-value and slows spread.
> Vaccines clearly reduce ones chance of acquiring a COVID infection by a significant margin.
All of that data is pre-Delta. The best thing you can say about the vaccines today is that they tend to reduce the overall severity/prevent people from dying.
The absolute lowest bound estimate was an Israeli study:
> In late July, the ministry further reduced its vaccine effectiveness estimate for symptomatic COVID-19 to 40.5%
However, they have failed to provide the data necessary to evaluate their results, and so at this time there's pretty wide skepticism regarding this figure.
In contrast:
> A study published in the New England Journal of Medicine on July 21 by Public Health England, for example, found that after the two recommended doses, the effectiveness of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in preventing symptomatic disease in the U.K. fell only slightly, to 88.0% against delta
Being a betting man, I'd say the truth lies somewhere in the middle, but even at 60-70% effectiveness in preventing symptomatic Delta infection, vaccination leads to a significant reduction in R-value.
Hospitalizations don't drop off anywhere near as fast as deaths do. About every 8 years younger halves the death rate, about every 15 years younger halves the hospitalization rate.
And delta has a hospitalization rate which is across the board twice the rate of alpha (with age/sex/deprivation/comorbidity-matched patients).
The virus is also not done mutating and is facing evolutionary pressure to become more transmissible, which is mostly through the mechanism of increased viral loads which has the knock-on effect of increasing virulence and hospitalization/death rates. In the short term it isn't getting any better and its only getting worse (turns out viruses don't always naturally evolve to become less virulent, and epidemiologists have known that since the 90s).
The hospitalization rate for old D614G variant in 20 year olds was 1%, that should be up to 2% now with delta. The hospitalization rate of vaccination in 20 year olds is probably too low to be measurable. If you're worried about 1-in-10,000 or worse vaccine side effects you should be much more worried about the virus landing you in the hospital (even though it probably won't kill you).
Vaccines also don't cause outbreaks of side effects months or years later. The vaccine is cleared in a few days, all that remains is the immune system response. That immune response can cause autoimmune side effects just like any virus can cause autoimmune side effects. What we know from a couple hundred years of studying viruses and vaccines is that the side effects appear in 90 days or they don't. There's no lingering time bombs, the immune system doesn't work that way (that would be a fantastically shitty way for the immune system to evolve, so it didn't).
And the mRNA vaccines are just a fragment of the virus genome that cannot reproduce which is packaged in a lipid (fat) particle that will get naturally shredded. It is both as close to "natural" as we can make it to have a low side effect profile and its also highly effective. If you manage to get naturally infected you get a pile of other shit from the virus genome plus self-replicating virions trying to kill you, which is all worse, nothing better.
And due to the concept of original antigenic sin you really do want to have your first exposure to the virus be something which your immune system mounts a strong defense to and learns how to clear the virus without killing you. If you get infected for real and wind up in the hospital your maladaptive response to the virus may wind up causing you problems down the road as the virus becomes endemic and you get infected with a different strain in the future. You should be worried about the long-term effects of that a lot more than the long-term effects of the vaccine.
Covid can't live long outside a host, and it absolutely can't reproduce outside a host. It uses the host's cell reproduction mechanisms to reproduce. IT CANNOT REPRODUCE ON ITS OWN. That's why the virus infects you, so that it can reproduce, and its species can continue to exist. Its niche is to use the host's cell reproduction mechanisms to reproduce.
If we had strong herd immunity, then covid would likely become something deadly but manageable, because the spread would be limited and slower. Mutations would slow, because the mutations would have fewer opportunities to persist.
Everything that reproduces experiences genetic mutation. "Mistakes are made." Most mutations don't persist and don't have much effect. Some mutations cause the organism to die or otherwise fail to reproduce, limiting the mutation's persistence.
Some mutations do persist. Red hair. Downs syndrome. Etc.
The "life cycle" of a virus is very short and very fast. Anyone infected with the virus gives that virus an environment to reproduce, and to mutate. A lot.
All the variants we have, including Delta, which won't be the last, are because enough people gave the virus an environment to thrive.
If you are infected, even if you have no symptoms, then you are providing the virus a safe haven to reproduce, thrive, and mutate. And you will spread it to others.
As for immunity, we have two ways to acquire it. With the vaccine, your body produces an immune response without having to host, increase and spread the virus.
Without the vaccine, if you're infected, and you don't die, then you'll likely have some immunity. But you've also spread it to other people, who may die from it, and who will further spread it. And you'll all probably contribute to the next mutation.
"I'm not vaccinated, and I never got the virus." Maybe. You could have been infected without symptoms, and therefore you did spread it, possibly killing one or more people.
"I got covid, but didn't go to the hospital. I beat it!"
Or,
"I got covid, went to the hospital, but recovered. I beat it!"
No you didn't. You spread it to other people, and helped it mutate into something stronger and more deadly.
"My $PERSON got it, and died in the hospital. But that was their choice, it didn't affect anyone else."
Yes it did. They spread it to other people, and they consumed medical resources and staff that could have been used by other covid and non-covid patients.
It's not just you, it's the people around you that you will infect, and all the follow on results.
The list of reasons not to do it was long and apparently convincing enough to them.