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Apple’s profit margins have never been 90%+. I recommend you do some googling before posting false information.

Apple has never had a monopoly on anything.

They just use the same silicon for a lot of products and have good profit margins, so they can place large orders with TSMC.



A significant portion of Apple profits is from the store, and the store has profit margins well in excess of 90%.

> Apple has never had a monopoly on anything.

We'll see what the EU antitrust commission says about that, so far there's been no legal decision in an independent jurisdiction yet.


“an independent jurisdiction”

Independent of what?


Apple has a monopoly on the iOS app store, which is a lucrative enough "market" to create systemic problems.

But from a physical perspective, they've never had the kind of monopoly Intel enjoyed for decades.


> Apple has a monopoly on the iOS App Store

The courts have ruled that the iOS App Store is not a monopoly.


They haven't, in the level of generality you imply. The ruling was much narrower: that Apple doesn't have a monopoly in the market of "digital mobile gaming transactions".


[flagged]


Perhaps you aren’t aware that the meaning of legal terms is decided by courts.

The alternative is that you don’t know what monopoly means and you are just using it a general way to say you don’t like Apple.


The meaning of legal terms are decided by courts for their jurisdiction.

When I, as european, wrote monopolistic, then that definition can still hold, as the European definition of that term is not decided by US courts.


Are you the person I was replying to?


I started the comment chain with my comment to which you replied "Apple has never had a monopoly on anything"


Have you looked into their profit margins? Do you still claim they are 90%+?


For the store? Most definitely, considering I can see what costs I expense for self-hosting all the infrastructure I need, developing the software, etc compared to what they want for it. That’s almost 2 orders of magnitude difference.


As opposed to random posters on the Internet?


hmm, Nintendo, Sony, Sega and MS all have a monopoly on their stores. In fact, Target has a monopoly to their retail stores. You can't just sell your crap at Target because you want to. Also to probably lose 50% to the retailers.


> Apple has never had a monopoly on anything.

They do on thier secoundary markets, (esp App Store) but they are also being monopolistic with replacement parts and repair.


The App Store was ruled in court not to be a monopoly.

Apple sells tools and parts to anyone who wants them, so it’s not really clear what you are talking about when it comes to repair.

But even if there was some merit to that point, it’s silly to suggest that their repair policies have anything to do with them buying a lot of silicon from TSMC.


> The App Store was ruled in court not to be a monopoly.

The App Store is a de-facto monopoly, it may not fit the legal definition of a monopoly but it practice it is (or what other App Stores can end-users install on iOS?). I'm not making a legal argument.

> Apple sells tools and parts to anyone who wants them

Where can I buy the tools needed to pair serialized replacement parts with the system? Regarding replacement parts, I don't work in the repair industry so I don't have first hand experience buying apple parts, but Louis Rossmann is telling a different story, do you have a source contradicting him?

> it’s silly to suggest that their repair policies have anything to do with them buying a lot of silicon from TSMC.

I'm responding to your claim that apple never had a monopoly on anything.


> The App Store is a de-facto monopoly, it may not fit the legal definition of a monopoly but it practice it is (or what other App Stores can end-users install on iOS?). I'm not making a legal argument.

Ford has a monopoly on Ford-branded floor mats! I mean you could choose other floor mats, but if you want Ford-branded ones they got a monopoly. A large audience is not a monopoly. I may not like Android phones, but they are sufficiently good, have almost all the same apps, and plenty of people have them.


Let’s not focus too much on the use of ‘monopoly’, but why we care about monopolies. A company doesn’t have to have one to harm consumers and markets, and harm can be things other than high prices. See: Lina Khan.

Some of the trust-busting policymakers’ discussions about tech products are painful to listen to, but it’s all trying to recalibrate anti-trust law to the rise of vertically integrated products, which have created amazing user experiences but but also high switching costs that create the conditions of a monopoly, without meeting the technical definition.


> Some of the trust-busting policymakers’ discussions about tech products are painful to listen to,

Because they are wrong.

> but but also high switching costs that create the conditions of a monopoly, without meeting the technical definition.

Because they are not monopolies.

If there is a problem, they should address that rather than trying to distort what is happening, otherwise they will simply make bad policies because they are being dishonest.


Pardon me, I think you misunderstand what I claim they have a monopoly on. They (obviously) don't have a monopoly on the mobile(or mobile software) market. They have a monopoly on the iOS software distribution market(a secondary market spawned by apple themselves). On an iOS device you cannot install a different App Store, therefor the end-user has no other choice than using Apple's App Store to download/buy software(=monopoly).

TL;DR iphones don't have a monopoly, the _AppStore_ has.

On Andoird the situation is a bit murkier, you technically can install software from outside Google's playstore, but you have to click trough scary dialogs(warnings about the danger of doing so), and App Stores installed that way don't have the same device permissions than googles play store have(you have to manually confirm each software update, for example). so yeah, on android it's debatable, but that's a story for another time.


Everyone has a monopoly on their own products. Samsung has a monopoly on Galaxy phones. Tesla has a monopoly on Model Ss. It’s meaningless to say that Apple has a monopoly on a certain part of the iPhone infrastructure, since it’s their product.

Of course they don’t have a monopoly on mobile apps or app stores or phones. There are competing products.


You're conflating the phones themselves with the secondary markets they create.

The problem is that Apple has a monopoly in selling/distributing Apps to iphone users. This is not the case on other operating systems, technically not even on android(eg. Samsung) and has nothing to do with a "monopoly on their own products".


You're calling a product (iOS app platform) a secondary market.


A phone is a product, the iOS app platform(or app distribution on iOS to be more precise) is a (monopolized) market, not a product.



> The App Store was ruled in court not to be a monopoly.

What the court actually ruled was that Epic didn't make a good enough case.

Also, what the court said is that Apple does have "considerable market share of over 55%", but was not demonstrated to be an "illegal monopolist".

Which sounds to me like they were declared to be a monopoly, even without getting into related scenarios that are commonly lumped under "monopoly".

> Apple sells tools and parts to anyone who wants them, so it’s not really clear what you are talking about when it comes to repair.

What? They have a strong history of not doing that in recent years.


> Which sounds to me like they were declared to be a monopoly,

Weird read. They were declared to have just over half the market and not be a monopolist.

You choose to read that as then being declared to be a monopoly.

This does provide helpful insight into why so many people seem to claim apple is a monopoly.


Apple get's 30% from sales in their app store without doing much. It is a huge amount of money for very little effort.


Here's what developers get for their 30%, and yes for very little effort on the developer's part:

  - 24/7 worldwide availability, instant payment/app download
  - Easy re-install after deletion, you still own the app even if deleted
    from the device
  - Region restriction
  - Separate app pricing by region
  - Revenues paid to developer from multiple region currencies without
    conversion fees
  - Tax calculation and collection
  - Instant customer refunds
  - User rankings and reviews
  - App store advertising in category listings
  - Video previews of the app in operation
  - Packaging of media content allowing developers the ability to load game
    levels as needed. This allows a user to start playing your game quickly.
  - App sales stats


Also the App Store ripped 70% fee rates out of the carrier’s hands.

Apple’s 30% was a huge deal in the mobile software space when it hit. That’s why so many people defected. And when they started turning profits, others followed. Most of the millionaires IIRC came out of the second and third wave, before everyone and their mother were doing it and people were making money telling you how they made a million 2 years ago (tricks that didn’t necessarily still work).

I agree that it’s a shame that Apple hasn’t periodically lowered their fees. Even a couple percent would make news. However, a different group would cry monopoly (dumping) because it would have kept more people focused on IOS exclusive applications.

They did eventually bow to public opinion and they lowered the fees for small developers to 15% a couple years ago.

I keep hoping they lower the fees for everything except in-app purchases. I think it would do their customers a lot of good.


> lowered the fees for small developers to 15%

Worth noting that this covers almost all developers.


Development of that amortized years ago and maintenance + new features cost small fractions of that 30%.


So what if it amortized? That's why Apple made that investment in the first place, so that they can make profit out of it. If any app developer tried to re-create it now it would cost them much more than 30% of their revenue.


As someone also hosting my own fdroid repo for my own apps, no, it wouldn't.

You don't need most of that, and what you do need can be had extremely cheaply at 10-50€/mo + 0.2%


No it can’t. Almost nobody uses fdroid for good reason. It’s also simply not comparable from a business standpoint, dealing with the taxation and regulation in a hundred countries seamlessly.


But what if I don’t care about that? Why should I pay extra for something I don’t care about? I don’t need the marketing, I don’t need to be featured in the front page of the store, I don’t need taxation and regulation for 100+ countries.

Why should I pay for these things I don’t care about? Why can’t these be separate costs, which I could opt-in? Why can’t they be unbundled?




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