Hmm.

1) "Becoming what I am doing" is the normal human experience resulting from the adaptive nature of the brain and such. Life is dynamic.

2) It's only a problem if it's a problem. Is it a problem? The sense of being a vessel, I mean. There is nothing objectively or inherently wrong with that. If you are questioning it, then there is some potential value misalignment.

3) Get clarity on your values. Whether that's from doing the work in Simon Sinek's book Find Your Why, or The One Thing Core Values deck, or some form of Ikigai exercise, or whatever. This will help you learn the shape of your vessel.

4) When you are the sort who tends to function as a mirror, reflecting only the influences around you, and you want to find out "who you are" beyond the reflections, you will have to retreat away from those influences for a time. So, meditation practices and the like, where you can find some distance, some space, some quiet, for "you" to appear. I'd suggest avoiding the flaky commercialized crunchy social media conformant trendy meditation garbage, but that may not be useful until you can discern the difference.

> I had some free time this weekend, when I realized I could do anything, but there was nothing I wanted to do.

> I know that to some degree I am burnt out due to studies, courses and everything else, but I honestly don't know where to go from here.

I don't think this has anything to you being poor or you being boring, these are strong warning flags for burnout and depression, and I urge you to take it seriously.

I would disagree and say that the childhood poverty/deprivation will very likely have influenced OP's situation.

I grew up similarly, and recall that recreational pastimes were heavily discouraged in favour of academic achievement and ladder-climbing.

As a child, we don't know any better, and simply do whatever our our parents/caregivers say is critical for success as an adult.

But then one day you find yourself with a large block of free time, as OP did, with nobody to tell you how to spend it, and you realize you have no idea what to do with it. If you didn't have the opportunity to engage in fun and rewarding hobbies while growing up, it's very hard to develop those feelings anew when doing them as an adult.

Any recommendations on this? It seems to happen rather often.

Yup. This is the result of growing up poor where all moments were filled with anxiety of about food, shelter and making money. Now that those things are a given you're not sure what to do. There is no easy fix/answer. You're just going to have to learn to live with that anxiety despite not needing to have it. For some it turns into guilt. For others they channel it into something positive. No formula or equation that works universally.

One thing that worked for me was hanging out with people that grew up well off. I adopted some of their mentality. What was especially eye opening was dating someone who grew up wealthy and beautiful.

What was eye opening about it? What is that mentality? Could you tell us some examples of these new insights?

Having grown up poor & not a particularly attractive person every time I went somewhere (nice restaurant, store, bar, game) my inner monologue told me it was a waste of money, I should be working not relaxing and that people that belonged didn't want me there. Hard to enjoy something when this is your mentality. The attractive, well off person showed me that spending within reason wasn't something to have anxiety over, relaxation is the payoff to working hard and in almost all cases no one really cares if you're there (it's all in your own head).

The most tangible example is, we would go to a nice restaurant, the host would seat us (I was happy), she would ask for a table near the window or one away from the kitchen door (no hesitation). She would always order a fun or adventurous appetizer to try new things and not finish it if she didn't like it (we always ate everything on our plates no matter what). Also if things were taking too long. she never chalked it up to we're being slighted, she was just relaxed and filled the time with conversation

To use an analogy, if we were both in a river, I was anxiously fighting against, she was gliding with flow

I don't come from a poor background but I'm basically in your exact situation, but probably older and less smart with regards to studying and technical stuff than you are.

I'm doing a PhD right now. It's a pretty good experience, but it won't solve your problem of the "emptiness." In fact, it will take up a ton of your mental time: the current state you're in is good for a PhD since you have to think a lot about what you're working on.

If I were you I would question whether or not your current mindset is actually a problem. Maybe you truly like thinking about certain types of problems irrespective of external demands of an employer. If so, in my opinion that's okay. On the other hand if you decide that your current mindset is actually a problem and that you should broaden your horizons or change, you can! For example you can try new hobbies that have nothing to do with work and see how you feel doing those things (preferably join a club so you can do it with other people).

I’ve introduced sabbath, one day per week (mine was Saturday) where you are not allowed to work or even think about work, not even reading mails. Do what your inner voice leads you to do on these days, including staying in bed all day while listening to audiobooks.

I’ve been using my sabbath day to explore the country I was living in (immersion in different places), and / or meeting people while at it. While traveling I was listening to audiobooks or playing games on my Switch (but overall reduced screen time). It was one of the factors getting me through an AI PhD.

Share your good fortune. Become a Big Brother/Sister, tutor kids, Habitat for Humanity.

If you come from a poor background you should be blessed with special knowledge of where the pain points are and how best you can help.

I did a Master's degree while in full time employment, which took 4 years.

I was so looking forward to having free time, but when it ended I was similarly lost.

It takes time to find your way, to socialise a bit (to find some friends even!), to do something other than just studying intensely and working.

So be gentle on yourself. Allow yourself to have time that is unstructured. You will start to figure it out.

Do you want to be a good speaker? Join Toastmasters.

Do you want to explore nearby areas? Go hiking.

Do you want to capture moments? Try using your own phone and start photography.

Do you want to start a vlog? Invest in a GoPro

The problem is that when I consider things to do, I can't find anything that I want to do as it feels that none of them serve some purpose.

You need to stick to one activity for at least 3 months before deciding it doesn't really serve any purpose. Trial and error. Consistency is the key.

Smarten yourself up, explore the local bars, try to find yourself a nice girl/boy.

I think I'm going to respectfully disagree in this particular case - trying to fill a void with another person is a pretty sure route to unhappiness. For sure go out and meet people, make friends, learn new and interesting ways to spend time; but romantic relationships in my experience are much more balanced when you're not hoping the other person will help to "fix" some element of your personality.

Codependency is easy to get into and doesn’t usually end well. Also, I’d argue it’s more fun to go out and meet people when you don’t have a “goal” in mind.

this is good context for people that might take it too literally

correct that “trying” to find a relationship has more subpar results than just being social and a relationship forming

OP does need to interact with more humans in places outside of academia and work. for someone that doesn't know their interests, going to the generic social option is great advice.

This is what I actually meant, not "go on the prowl", rather, "put yourself in situations where this might happen"

My advice:

1. Find a therapist. If the first one or two or six don't work, keep looking.

2. Find something you like to do offline - reading, music (listening or playing), dancing, volunteering, whatever. If the first thing or two or six you try don't work, keep looking. Bonus points if it involves exercise, lots of bonus points if it involves interaction with other people (especially people from different backgrounds than the ones you're likely to encounter in your work / university).

As with all advice (especially from internet strangers), take with a grain of salt. Best of luck!

Edit: I realized after I posted that you didn't say you program, but rather that you work for FAANG. So sorry if some of this comment is slightly mis-guided.

> I had some free time this weekend, when I realized I could do anything, but there was nothing I wanted to do.

I bet you were on the internet. At least, my experience lately is that the internet is very boring. I previously would have never expected to say that.

Dive into a project that isn't a project IMO. It's a hobby. For instance, FPV drones. They overlap well with your skillset (programming), but require some new learning (soldering, electronics). You can program autonomous flights later if that's interesting to you.

Programming is magic right now, and I would be looking for intersections where you can apply it in a way that's fun. I posted in another thread just now about projects I've built, and I mentioned a few programming projects. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33583779

Other than finding a non-boring hobby, I would just get out in the world. Meet some people. Do things you're afraid of. Cosplay as a different personality sometimes. Just pretend you're really outgoing and walk into a new bar. Experiment with life in non-permanent ways and see what suits you.

I know it can be hard to see the world through other peoples' lenses, but you don't have much time. Don't waste it on boring shit that you find meaningless.

I understand what you are going through. Am in my 70's and took a long time to get past it. A few thoughts. While it is great to love your job, it is even better to have a job that you don't hate and that gives you the most money and free time to do what you figure out you want to do. I also suffered from very low self-esteem which really sucks.

I went to a few therapists and I did find one I could relate to, but it didn't make miracles happen. I do not think it is worth it.

I found a hobby I really liked - it is photographing birds in flight. It is hard to do well, but easy to do. I am not suggesting that, but as an example you can meet people through photography clubs, through Audobon field trips, through going to places where birds are spotted (ebirds.org). I am also, because of the birds, engaged in environment where I work with a community group of chemists, geologists, interested people. My skills in programming help with charting and anazlying results of samples we collect. Maybe you want to get in shape and meet people are 10K;s or play pickleball or rugby or whatever. Maybe you want to write and can get brave enough to expose your work at a writers club.

My point is that if work isn't it now, it pays the bills and use it as a means to make enough money to do something you think you really like. So photography, bird watching, running, team sports, teaching (think helping high school robotics team), any community group for any cause needs web designers, collecting things, model railroading, drones, flying. (My first non-work activity was flyiing and until I busted my medical was a great thing for me).

Sounds like depression of some kind — does your school have any kind of counseling program? Your employer likely has an EAP, employee assistance program.

EDIT 1: Plus-one for the commenters suggesting doing something with other people — especially something that benefits kids, or others, who are less fortunate than you (it's an amazing mood enhancer).

EDIT 2: Absolutely be sure to get regular, vigorous exercise of some kind — even just rapid walking — to release endorphins.

Find a friend who does have personality under whom you can be indirectly (or even directly) trained. Hang out with them often in public places where they are familiar and allow them to express themselves with others. You can pick up on some of their interpersonal techniques directly, but you don't even have to do that. Given enough time, you will absorb the behaviors of theirs that resonate with you.

Some people here are going to tell you that you're depressed and that there's nothing wrong with having a personality that doesn't feel like a personality to you. It's possible you're depressed or burned out, and that you don't know yourself yet, but I doubt you feel the way you do without a good reason. Those with expressive personalities are more likely to have opportunities placed in front of them. There are clear advantages to learning who you are and being able to make yourself interesting to others.

Don't forget to do other things outside of work and vice. It doesn't matter what it is. Try different things out. Go to a climbing gym. Or not. Doesn't matter. You can learn a new language. Or not. Do you enjoy alcohol? Get into wine tasting or home distilling. Just do things and don't be afraid to ditch them if you lose interest. All I know is that I've found a lot of benefit in simply trying things no matter how short lived those interests turned out to be. Do some crazy things, too, within a reasonable risk tolerance. Get on a plane tomorrow and go to Hawaii, or Detroit, or whatever. Dress like a punk and go to a local punk rock show. Buy a large pry bar and go around town at night lifting up manhole covers to see what's under them. Literally anything.

Why? Why do you want to have personality? Why do you want to fill this emptiness? I'm not saying that you shouldn't. But I'm unsure of the benefit of doing it for its own sake. The way I read your post it's more like you are trying to fit into other peoples expectations than you truly wanting to do other things.

Maybe explore and expose yourself to a little bit of everything to see if there is anything you are missing out on?

> Why do you want to have personality?

I don't know. I don't really like the emptiness.

> than you truly wanting to do other things.

I don't actually want to do anything, but in not doing anything I just see the days go by without something meaningful achieved.

I actually like that I am the way that I am, I can just dive into things and can go on for weeks just hammering onto problems but it comes at the the cost of other aspects of life, and that isn't particularly healthy tbh. It always leads to some kind of burnout.

I am thinking that because my current employment situation isn't particularly engaging nor demanding I am just feeling dissatisfied.

You get better at what you practice.

It sounds like you don't want to keep practicing 'work-y' stuff.

You'll need to sit down and puzzle out what it is that you want to be doing with the little time we all have on this planet. It may take a few months to try to figure that out for yourself, likely it'll take the rest of your life.

There's just oodles of advice on how to do that online. Two bits of advice there: involve close family/friends in the conversation and involve your religious/spiritual practice too. You'll be more successful and it'll be more fulfilling.

It's a heck of a journey and you're going to have a hard but worthwhile time with it.

Per the PhD stuff, read this: https://acoup.blog/2021/10/01/collections-so-you-want-to-go-...

It's tailored to the humanities side, but all my STEMy PhD friends said that it's very very similar to their experiences.

First, I suggest volunteering in your community, perhaps finding opportunities at https://justserve.org (if available in your area--does not require fees or religious affiliation). You would likely be surprised at how much joy can come from that, plus encountering a variety of interesting people and experiences. Kindness is never a waste. Sometimes it can give big insights.

And if you want a variety of things, I made a list of things ideas for when someone is bored, from learning music or unicycling, to a balanced program for self-development and service, etc etc. Having some goals and a purpose in life can be a big help. The tech-simple site is listed in my HN profile, then you can click "Fun..." then "If someone is bored...". I think there is a lot there.

ps: I also have some content about choosing a purpose in life. I recommend learning and service, to lift self & others the best one can.

My advice is to read "Spiritual Laws" by Emerson - with an eye towards trying to discover your own "calling". This doesn't have to lead to another project, but will get you to start listening to your inner voice which you probably had to suppress for many years, but I'm sure it's still there :)

> I had some free time this weekend, when I realized I could do anything, but there was nothing I wanted to do.

First of all, I think this is not so unusual for people who are very good at focusing on a particular problem area. See the cliché of the absent-minded professor. If you are constantly thinking about the same area, whether the issues are difficult or not, you cannot hope to just turn this off and immediately find something else appealing.

My primary advice is not to search for something new you want to do, but to apply an indirect strategy: Establish a weekend routine were you try to force any work-related thoughts out of your mind from Friday evening till Monday morning. So if you find yourself thinking about work at the weekend, stop that train of thought immediately and force yourself to think about something else, whatever that is. Do this a few weekends in a row and see what happens.

Do you actually want to do this PhD or is it just the appeal of having a defined, long term target laid out for you?

From one perspective you’re in a pretty exciting position. You’d about to wrap up the study/formation part of your life. You’ve got a job that should offer long-term financial stability and a fairly clear career path.

You have spent so long getting somewhere. Now you’re there and you don’t know what to do with all the time you spent getting there. I think this “quarter life crisis” is fairly common among the graduate classes. What do you do when you reach the end of the process laid out for you?

The solution is to just do… anything. Try lots of stuff and see what you enjoy. Is there anything that’s ever tempted you but felt “not for you” or too scary to try? Now’s the time.

I've felt in a similar funk at times after years of hard work and studying. Your comments about what to do with free time especially resonate.

For me, my relationships with other people are what can really bring meaning. I would suggest trying to find something you enjoy or that helps others that brings you around other people. You could consider looking in your community for volunteer opportunities or taking up a hobby that involves others. I'd echo other's comments here and suggest something physical, maybe a running group or sports league.

For the burnout I'd suggest meditation and therapy. The Headspace intro course could be a good start. It might be hard to find something that interests you and connect with others until the burnout is dealt with.

Try something different, maybe like tending a garden, growing your own food.

Or try camping,a few days outside the comforts of modern life. Put yourself in the shoes of your ancestors of millenia past and try imagine how they lived. Speculate in what they cared about.

Hold off on academia for now. Don't join until you work out your own identity difficulties.

I'm with you. As an introvert, it can be tough to figure out how to build yourself instead of building for someone else.

I'd say explore and start small. Are there anchor points in the arts, fitness/sports, ways to try some fun and local courses? Meetups? It is not going to be quick and easy.

Don't worry about getting a perfect theory of yourself built right away. You will have to try a bunch of things and see what resonates. Become a self-experimenter and keep a diary that you can do back to monthly to figure out which pathways are better to dig into long-term.

Take a breath and try to relax and enjoy the emptiness, until you feel comfortable enough to discover new things in your life.

It sounds like your life has been filled by (valid) fears that have driven you to work hard all the time. Now that you have moments when you don't have life threatening fears swooping down on you, adapt. Don't try to find new fears to fill that void. Deal with being in the new situation of finally having a choice about what you do.

It sounds like you are on the cusp of living your own life, which might be bewildering at first, but ultimately, really awesome. Good luck!

What was that thing all the kids were saying a few weeks ago?

I got it -- _go touch grass_.

I tried touching grass, but ... it felt meaningless, a waste even. I am standing where others have stood, doing the exact same thing, thinking the same thoughts, and then moving on. Have I contributed anything in any meaningful way?

You sound depressed. I speak from experience.

You're making the mistake of trying to rationalize a feeling. For non-depressed people, doing something that qualifies as "touching grass" brings joy, regardless of rationalization.

For you, it does not and your brain rationalizes it as pointless.

It helped me to realize feelings lead to rationalizations, not logic.

They next step is to consider why you're in this state and how best to proceed. I suggest trying exercise specifically to force endorphin release and revisit how this impacts your feelings as a reaction to the situation.

If you find yourself thinking different thoughts after something chemically impactful, like exercise, you've presented evidence that there's a deeper cause that you can't just rationalize away.

> They next step is to consider why you're in this state and how best to proceed. I suggest trying exercise specifically to force endorphin release and revisit how this impacts your feelings as a reaction to the situation.

I think exercising is a good idea, I wanted to start running and lifting again.

> If you find yourself thinking different thoughts after something chemically impactful, like exercise, you've presented evidence that there's a deeper cause that you can't just rationalize away.

This is a good observation, thanks.

I come from a background similar to yours. Touching grass didn't work for me either when I was at the stage you're at. Therapy and antidepressants did work :)

Hey I did this. Sounds like you need to get out a bit. Have a look on meetup.com and see if there is anything interesting out there and just do it.

Can recommend anything involving social involving exercise i.e. hiking, playing a sport (I play tennis occasionally). Occasionally random eating out is fun (I ended up with a bunch of Googlers on one). Works wonders. You return with clarity.

I think I've done 390 meetup events now. I've met and made a lot of friends over the last few years, some have stuck.

Another project might cut it, especially since it appears you've gotten very good at your job, lending to success of the project and thus giving you more confidence and satisfaction.

Even better might be another hobby, so that you feel better about your life balance.

Either would be a good distraction from your current negative perspective. Pick one up, and pick up a more positive perspective - you owe it to yourself.

I have a similar background and experience, but am probably a lot older. Eventually that emptiness led me to vipassana meditation and a realization that my mind is composed of the thinking striving mind and my sensate mind, but both are subservient to my awareness. My striving was driven by my thinking mind at the expense of my sensate mind. It also controlled my awareness. Vipassana meditation, over the course of a two years of daily practice, taught me how to assert the primacy of my awareness - which has no voice like my striving mind, or feelings like my sensate mind. This awareness mind I learned is the true mind, it’s where thought actually happens but the thought isn’t visceral like my other two subsystems. In drinking and substances and food I fed the senate mind, and striving at work and career I fed my thinking mind, and was unaware of my true underlying self that lurks in the awareness. Meditation helped me isolate these components of my mind and assert awareness over striving and sensing. My mind still thinks and strives and I still feel, but they are background processes and in general I am quietly myself now. My anxiety is gone, I know what I like to do, and I am not unhappy when I’m not doing what I like to do - I’m just aware of it, and acknowledge my thoughts and striving. I am probably more ambitious now than before, but it’s very narrowly focused on what I want to do and I know why now. I’m also painfully aware that I’m a baby in this experience and am not very skilled. Now I really truly understand why Buddhism is as influential as it is. But if what I said is right, and an awful lot of folks believe it is over many thousands of years, the emptiness you feel is because you’re simply not letting yourself be yourself, but are confusing the imperatives of your thinking mind with you - which makes you feel because it’s not you. While I said simply, it’s not simple to experience especially if you’ve been driven by ambition and anxiety for a long time like I was.

If you want a price of what I’ve got I suggest starting here:

https://www.audiodharma.org/series/introduction

Or if you prefer YouTube:

https://youtu.be/TALTfUxelAc

The master here is a guy named Gil. He’s very interesting and his style appeals to western style engineers:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gil_Fronsdal

Good luck. The path your on can be extraordinarily painful.

Maybe a slightly crazy suggestion but have you tried some extreme physical activity like skydiving or rollercoaster rides or similar? I personally never felt so alive as when I fell out of a plane, and the experience stayed with me in a very positive way for days afterwards. Perhaps you need something wildly different from your day-to-day.

I had a car crush once and the experience left me rejuvenated, alive even. Perhaps something extreme could help but tbh I am a coward and afraid of heights.

Same for me regarding the fear of heights - I won't go near the edge of anything unless there is a barrier at chest height or higher. To be honest, I think choosing to do the jump despite my fear was part of what made the experience so amazing.

If you really don't fancy it or want to build up to it, rollercoasters offer something of the same thrill in a more controlled way - any good parks nearby? Alternatively, have you ever tried SCUBA diving and/or are you near to somewhere you could do it? You'll find a great community of friendly people from all walks of life, and a similarly meditative experience, but totally tranquil instead of being totally exhilarating. On a similar note, I personally get a lot of fulfilment out of any kind of experience in the wild - you could turn your analytical mind to the study of plants or animals, and being out among the natural world generally brings a lot of cognitive and physical benefits.

crash*

Do you think it was a combination of the adrenaline and the near-death-experience aspect of skydiving that did it for you? Or something less obvious?

Yeah I think that pretty much covers it - the sudden shock of falling, the expansive view of everything beneath me, and perhaps the experience of deliberately doing something that I've been terrified to do my entire life. From what I've heard about meditation (never practised it myself) it was something like achieving enlightenment at 120mph :-)

Don't go back to academia. Embrace the situation. If you like programming, just channel it there, build stuff...

You need to go out and meet some people who are very different than you and spend a lot of time with them. More than one group of these ideally. I’m not sure what that is — what ideas or activities do you find scary but thrilling?

You might need to go out and find out who you are by getting into a lot of situations

It takes years

throwaway

every developer i know at FAANG, SaaS, or the hundreds of other companies where the core problem is already solved or the business model is net useless to humanity falls into one of two buckets

1. has an extraordinarily rich inner life and is happy with being able to churn away for 20–40 hours a week on useless things, and return to their family/friends/hobbies with a huge check

2. is on antidepressants and desperately trying to find meaning

meanwhile, all the dev friends i have who work in biotech or healthcare are all pretty happy, maybe a little peeved at their lowered salary, but otherwise feel extreme confidence that they are doing good for the world

pick your poison i guess, i chose biotech and am extremely happy with my decision, going on 2.5 years now

read great books outside your professional world

join some real life groups outside your professional world, meetups etc.

cultivate something you like outside of work, movies, sport, cooking, gardening, travel etc.

kind of like Zuck's personal challenges, make a habit to do something annually, monthly

Start by doing sports: gym, running, maybe group sports if you want connection with other people (or for example wakeboarding if you want something more fun).

Moneywise you're probably set for life at this stage, so it's time to look at health / fitness.

Yep, and I'd even recommend getting and befriending a trainer for whichever sport interests you. Trainers typically know a large number of people from various background and will often make social introductions. It works especially well when moving to a new place!

But do not focus on the health aspect of it. No more goals. Do it for fun. To play with people.

It's very difficult to not try to optimize everything, to do something for its own sake. I honestly don't know how to go about doing that. I tried to pick up chess, and found myself obsessing over openings and tactics.

Let us face it: Self-optimization is an addiction. And addiction you need to treat.

I felt the same and found that I just needed to live emotions, and was in touch with a lot of people who showed or felt none. Meeting more sensible persons was an enlightenment.

All I read is that you are trying to achieve some more goals. Try to do something without goals. Buy a videogame and play a bit. Buy a basketball and throw some baskets. Go swimming.

Without a goal!

I have this problem too, you have to find some hobbies you like and make sure you lean into those in your free time instead of working and studying

You lost contact with your inner self. Those are the keywords i’d google around for a starter in your position (which I currently kinda am)

2 different ways to analyze your life:

-- Physical Intellectual Emotional Spiritual

--

Family Friends Health Wealth Virtue --

Maybe spend some time improving one of these?

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

The big goal can be your future family.