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> We cannot reproduce the rates of rich world car ownership in the developing world without mass catastrophe

That's incredible! Now show us some evidence.




Evidence like total cost of car infra vs taxes that ppl pay? Evidence that low density areas are subsidized by high density? All this info is freely available online. Difference is US can afford to be in debt, other countries - not so much


Don't forget the bit where many cities are running in the red (existing infra costs more to maintain than it nets in taxes), but they "make it up on growth" by continually expanding


Those may be serious problems, but nothing about that says that "mass catastrophe" necessarily follows. Language like that is implying something approaching apocalyptic.

> All this info is freely available online.

Given that the internet is full of conflicting information, and that you seem to know far more about this issue than I do, perhaps you could share a link to some of this information from a source you find credible? I would like to trust you over whatever is at the top of search engine results.


The guy in this thread provided a link to strongtowns, there are other sources too, but I suggest starting with it since they cover most of what I'we written.

For me, mass catastrophe is not just referring to economic side(imo failing to maintain car infra bc it costs too much at some point bc of low density of population & high wear of the roads is pretty bad) but also the time lost on travel compounded over years for all ppl bc of the spread, the isolation of the ppl from each other, limited mobility options for old ppl or ppl with disabilities, higher pollution (even if we replace all cars with electro, it doesn't solve pollution fully, bc of tire wear particles, tonns of asphalt that should be renewed bc of many cars, etc...). When added all together, the image is not looking good. Us can 'afford' this bc of usd/dollar, loans and their economic position globally(when I write afford I mean they can afford to ignore the problem, at least for some time) but for other countries it may result in an economic suicide


I don't have a source. I just think that the habitat loss from roads/parking lots is massive, pavement changes watersheds, tires cause massive pollution, rubber farms and plants are disgusting, iron ore mines are disgusting, rare earth mineral mines are disgusting, the money we'd spend on building/buying/maintaining cars and their infrastructure is an unimaginable blunder (literally trillions), waste cars are a disaster. Like if something came from space and forced this on us it would be a total catastrophe. Us choosing it doesn't change that fact.


With the risk of sounding like a broken record, it's what Strong Towns bases their advocacy around: https://www.strongtowns.org/

There's also a overview of their stuff from Not Just Bikes, but these videos are somewhat hit or miss since his works have a tone which can come off as being condescending: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJp5q-R0lZ0_FCUbeVWK6...




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