Because the problem is that it is not the "full body" of the coffee maker. Those pipes go somewhere. At least in the sense of how people usually think of an espresso machine the machine also contains the pump and the boiler. This apparently doesn't have those parts? Or if it has they are not good looking and minimalist enough to show.
We are discussing the photos as if those are the problem, but I think the issue people are having is with the product design. If I make a picture of a laptop on a charger people don't ask where do the cable go, because they know it goes into a charger connected to the wall. But with this people have to imagine a standalone boiler/pump setup just waiting to be connected into this coffee extractor thingy which is not a thing most people have (or expect to one day have ) in their kitchen.
Surely that image is a computer rendering and not an actual photo though! I want to see an _actual_ photo. Like on a counter. How big is it? Wires? Power brick? Cool concept, but hard to make a decision with so little information.
> Cool concept, but hard to make a decision with so little information.
It sounds like it is not hard to make the decision. I made my decision and it is a no. This is a cool thing for people who want to try the latest concepts but don't worry about it being an already polished and integrated whole product.
It is how some people kit build their Rutan Long-EZ to fly with, and some people just buy tickets from an airline. They are both flying but they are not the same class of thing. This is more towards the kit built airplane end of the scale for me than what I would be comfortable with.
> It sounds like it is not hard to make the decision. I made my decision and it is a no. This is a cool thing for people who want to try the latest concepts but don't worry about it being an already polished and integrated whole product.
I got to push back on this and align with the dozens of other comments being critical of the website. If I had the physical and budgetary space for it, I'd already be salivating at this point and wanting to hear more, polished or not.
But, the website is utterly lacking in conveyance of practical use and just dressed up in marketing design. While there is a disclaimer that the (device) design may undergo further revision, it's orthogonal to the fact that this completely kills any chance of an immediate, impulse buy (again, if I had the space). I would at this point be asking other buyers to post videos of it in use long after units have already been sold into the wild.
I do take my coffee somewhat seriously, with the consumption of fresh microroasted beans and a few prized pieces of brew equipment.
Want to try turning my comment more constructive (though my frustations with what passes for customer service/relations these days will bleed through)
I see that the OP has already stated they will upload some videos. That would be great; many angles, both in use and not in use, both overview and zoomed in on components.
I am not most people, but I would prefer the kind of videos without excessive (though not to say "devoid of") pre-/post-processing, editing, green-screening, video cuts every three seconds, and all that shebang. Even your teenaged child or friend/significant other conscripted for twenty minutes to hold the phone with a steady hand while you show things off, minimally rehearsed and to-the-point... would be _fantastic_.
Don't even need to publish it on the official website if you deem it too tacky; but it will be infinitely more valuable to have on the ready than no demonstration at all if people are reaching out to you through channels like HN or even any address listed on the website. IMO.
The only way this type of thing takes off today is if it gets reviews. I am sure he will send out test devices to the usual suspects and we will see third party reviews.
I think people are being a bit harsh about the site and presentation. I think most of the criticisms are legitimate, but it is only fair to recognize the trends right now; it is no better or worse than most any other new product website - which tend to be similarly devoid of real information, no matter how much the product might cost.
From looking at the site and reading his comments here, this is a soft-launch / teaser, and he seems receptive to feedback. I look forward to seeing how things progress. I especially look forward to some solid videos showing everything in action. As with all things coffee, I can only be cautiously optimistic. But that means he is doing great :)
A bit of a catch-22, right? In any case, there is going to be an "in the meantime" until reviews get published, and probably even more time before some more well-known channels possibly decide to get their hands on it and talk about it.
Any effort to get early wave buy-in from a certain (IMO critical and not uncommon) type of enthusiast (i.e., someone like me) in that meantime will be cripplingly handicapped by their web presence lacking information and not showing anything w.r.t. what the real-life use looks like.
I suppose that's my feedback, but you are right about the good move to make themself available here for feedback/Q&A. I'm jealous that I don't have the funds right now to actually consider buying one, so I'm here pontificating instead.
I personally am heavily considering pre-ordering a pump for my old Ms Silvia that has already undergone the knife many times, and then more long term I really like the idea of the grinder. But I won't be buying until they do their follow up and provide the richer detail you require as well. I was mainly saying it is not a special omission that indicates anything about the product to me (unfortunately, that is the state of the relevant arts right now).
I suppose it says something important about the major defects with modern marketing that many people stopped there. Although I often would do the same, I did not, because I sense there is something great in this product line, and I want to be uncharacteristically patient to allow it to blossom.
Push back on what exactly though? I claimed that it is not hard to decide if one wants to buy it. I just decided that i don’t want to buy it. It sounds like you came to the same decision. So what is exactly the thing you disagree with me?
Well, it's not hard only because the website completely lacked any useful detail to inform the decision. In the end, it's a great play by OP to come here and open up a Q&A.
Reading between the lines, I’m pretty sure the pump is integrated in the housing (that’s their custom “bespoke, brushless gear pump”), and the boiler is your electric kettle. So I think you could just drop the end of the tube into your kettle and call it a day.
The kind of coffee enthusiast who is going to preorder a $650 unreviewed coffee machine probably has at least one temp holding kettle they use for pour over.
But fully agreed this needs some clarity on the website.
OH! I think you might be right. Oh! That explains it. Thank you.
Thinking about it now, of course. What else would the power lead be for? It doesn't heat the water. The pump being in that part can be the only other explanation.
> The kind of coffee enthusiast who is going to preorder a $650 unreviewed coffee machine probably has at least one temp holding kettle they use for pour over.
Yeah. I think that's the key here. This is for an enthusiast who wants the latest coolest tech, and is willing to accept some amount of discomfort for it.
