> How do Jewish people accept the genocide going on right now?
Israel is predominately Jewish in religion and ethnicity, but Israel does not represent all Jewish people. While I am not Jewish, I would imagine some might find to conflation to be highly offensive.
It's obviously not all Jewish people, but there are unfortunately many Jewish communities who are very supportive of the ongoing genocide in Gaza. Particularly in the US it's something that has allowed what is happening to continue almost exclusively unopposed. More generally the West has morally failed, so certainly not exclusive to any religion.
That the term anti-Semitism is constantly used to deflect or tar those objecting to Israels mass killing of civilians really is equally offensive I would suggest.
Really? Because the initial GP comment did not parameterize Jewish people which hold certain views. The GP comment just said, "How do Jewish people accept the genocide going on right now?"
> That the term anti-Semitism is constantly used to deflect or tar those objecting to Israels mass killing of civilians really is equally offensive I would suggest.
Ok? I nor anyone else at the time of this comment called the GP an anti-semite, so I am not sure why you feel compelled to mention this point.
The entire point of my initial comment was to bring attention to the attempt to paint entire, non-monolithic group of people with such a large brush. If you want to argue about the rhetoric used in pro-Palestinian vs. pro-Israeli online-discourse, then I implore you to find another comment. I imagine there likely some in this very thread.
On the first point of your reply I was agreeing with you, but also felt the need to expand to draw the distinction that a good many people of the Jewish faith actively defend the ongoing genocide and Israel.
On your second point, my follow up comment on anti-Semitism being weaponised feels wholly appropriate in this context. If you can bring attention to something you feel is directly relevant to the conversation I'm not sure why you would not allow me to do the same.
The person I was responding to was unlikely a pro-Israeli activist, so I am not certain why you felt compelled to mention your caveat. Are you implying that because pro-Israeli activist allegedly created the conflation that others are justified in perpetuating it?
I literally wrote that Israel does not represent all Jewish people. Yet, you beeline straight to mentioning pro-Israeli activist. It doesn't matter who created the irrational conflation or not. People need to stop perpetuating it.
It's absolutely critical context in a rhetorical environment where "antisemitism" has been drained of meaning. Not sure where your hostile reaction is coming from.
Plenty of Jewish people don't accept it. Many of the most dedicated and passionate critics of Israel are Jews. This is obvious, so let's not cross into unpleasant tropes.
> How do Jewish people accept the genocide going on right now?
They were not expecting it. GHF has distributed enough food to Gaza that there should not be any starvation going on.
The Jewish people were not expecting the weaker people in Gaza to be unable to get food because the strong stole it, and got more than their fair share.
Is it really that hard? Go see the stats on how much food GHF distributed, then add in the UN brings in (which never stopped).
Then go look at photos of fat healthy people holding starving kids, and wonder how that's even possible. If you read interviews (and I have) you'll get your answer: the food is very unevenly distributed, the strong have stolen it from the weak.
The genocide is done in the name of the Zionist ideology, not Judaism, and Jewish people don‘t have to have any special opinion about it different from the rest of us. Zionists however have a lot to answer for, and they sure do need to find a lot of excuses if they want to keep their ideology.
If a Jewish person condemns the Gaza genocide, that just means they are human and follow the news and empathize with victims of horrible mass atrocities (like any normal person). However, if a Zionist (Jewish or not) condemns the Gaza genocide, while claiming to belief in the Zionist ideology, they are going to have to explain to me how on earth they can still call them self a Zionist during all these horrors.
You can't really use the word Zionist anymore because everyone has a completely different definition of what it means.
So you're going to have to define your particular flavor before using it.
To me virtually everyone on earth is a Zionist because it just means "having your own country", which is something almost everyone wants. I'm sure your definition is different.
To me Zionism is the settler colonial national project of Israel as a Jewish supremacy state on Palestinan lands.
If you support Israel as a Jewish supremacy state which denies civil rights to the Palestians that live there or were expelled (or descendants of expelled Palestinians) in 1947-1948, then you are a Zionist.
If you support a state called Israel which has equal rights for all its civilians (including Palestinians, and right of return for displaced Palestinians and their descendants, regardless of a whether you support a separate independent Palestine along the 1967 borders (as long as you recognize the right of return for the 1948 refugees to Israel), then you are not a Zionist.
I know Zionism comes in various flavors, including very extreme forms (such as Kahanism), and not all Zionists support the genocide done in their name. But as I understand it, no Zionist completely supports equal civil rights for all Palestinians, including the right of return and reparations for Palestinian refugees, because if they did support that, they wouldn’t be Zionists, at least not in my books.
So you should know that this definition of Zionism that you use was created by antisemities.
No actual Zionist uses this definition. It's also not a factual reality of how Israel started, Israel is not a settler project, it's not colonial, and it was not built on Palestinian lands. None of that is true. Zionism is Jews returning to their own land, not the land of others.
But I am well aware that people like to pretend it's true, (and then criticize it). If you spend a lot of time online you'll hear this definition over and over, and people actually start to believe it's real.
Israel already has equal rights for all civilians inside Israel. The people in the area not in Israel of course are not Israeli, and they were offered a state of their own, which they refused (multiple times).
> because if they did support that, they wouldn’t be Zionists, at least not in my books.
Tons of Zionists want that, they call them leftists in Israel, but they are also Zionists. They used to be far more numerous, but multiple Palestinian attacks have greatly reduced their numbers. (It's one of the ironies of Oct 7 that the Palestinians primarily killed those people advocating for a Palestinian state.)
The fact that you say "they wouldn't be Zionists" makes it quite clear that you don't actually know what Zionism is!
> Zionism is an ethnocultural nationalist movement that emerged in late 19th-century Europe to establish and support a Jewish homeland through the colonization of Palestine.
Brittanica:
> Zionism, Jewish nationalist movement with the goal of the creation and support of a Jewish national state in Palestine.
Jewish Vioce for Peace (an Anti-Zionist organization):
> Zionism is a form of Jewish nationalism, and is the primary ideology that drove the establishment of Israel.
> The political ideology of Zionism, regardless of which strain, has resulted in the establishment of a Jewish nation-state in the land of historic Palestine.
Jewish center for justice (a Zionist organization):
> Zionism is the belief in the Jewish people’s right to self-determination in our ancestral homeland of Israel.
> Today, supporting Zionism means promoting the continued existence of a Jewish state and upholding the right of Jews to live freely in their historic homeland.
> The progressive movement for liberation and national self-determination of the Jewish people in our indigenous homeland, the land of Israel.
Zack Beauchamp (A journalist and a Liberal Zionist):
> Zionism is Israel’s national ideology. Zionists believe Judaism is a nationality as well as a religion, and that Jews deserve their own state in their ancestral homeland, Israel.
There is a varying degree in what these definitions call the land in question (Israel; Jewish ancestral homeland; etc.; I just call it Palestine) and where exactly that land is (1967 borders; Israel + occupied territories; Israel + Sinai + Jordan + South Lebanon + ect.). There is also a varying degree of how much rights to grant the indigenous population. Liberal Zionists want to grant them equal rights as a minority, while Kahanists want to expel them again in a Geoncide. But all Zionists agree that Zionism is a national project to maintain a Jewish supremacy state in Palestine.
A liberal Zionist would refute the description Jewish supremacy because in a democratic Israel all citizens should have the same rights. I refute that refutation on the basis that without the right of return for the 1948 refugees, Israel has artificially created a racial majority on lands that did not belong to them, and thus have created a supremacy through majority rule via a violent expulsion of the indigenous population.
